Work, Skill Sets & Employment Trends for 2021 - Interview With Gaby Clyburn (PART I)
Now, it's the beginning of the year. And of course, it's the time when everyone is curious what's happening in the world of work.
What are the future of work trends?
What are the skill sets and demands and of course, how to prepare for what's ahead?
I'm super excited to be joined by somebody who's got the finger on the pulse.
Gaby Clyburn is our guest today. And Gaby is a senior account manager with seek.
Because we caught up before the interview, and Gaby has so much valuable insights to share, we thought we split this podcast actually into two episodes.
The first part is all about the research to trends and predictions. And the second part is all about how can you prepare for what's ahead.
So make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss a beat.
Now, with no further ado, I want to introduce our guest, Gabby Clyburn.
TRANSCRIPT:
Petra:
Hi, Gabby.
Gaby:
Hi, Petra! Thank you so much for having me. How are you?
Petra:
I'm great. And I'm so excited that you're here because so funny.
When we recorded this, you said you just literally got at latest research and the trends the day prior.
So we're on the pulse with what's going on.
But clearly 2020 has shown us everything changes so quickly.
And this is also what I love about your personal story that you have such a diverse backgrounds and interests.
I wouldn't mind so I have a little bit of an insight as to give me who are you and what are you doing? And how did you get to where you are now?
Gaby:
Absolutely. Well, it's a big question Petra.
And so as you know, I work at seek so I'm a senior account manager hearing Queensland. my current role is looking after around 50 recruitment agencies across Queensland, that a medium to large.
It's all things relationships with seek. So that's looking at employment trends, market data and analysis. It's looking at job ads, and job ad performance. It's understanding the market, all things contract training, proactive sourcing. So really all things employment with recruitment agencies. So that's my current role.
As I said, I've been at seek for six years.
So I've been really lucky to work in a few different roles at seek, but also across the country as well. So for me, originally, I am from country, New South Wales.
That's where I grew up. And as you do as a country, girl, you want bigger and better things, and you want to move to the big city, which I ended up doing.
And I moved to Sydney. And for me, growing up, I was very, very sporty, I had three brothers. And we were always playing, you know, touch football, or hockey or Rugby League, whatever it might be. So very sporty growing up. And, you know, I probably had a not so traditional career path or education path once I left school because, you know, I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do.
I had some friends who really clearly wanted to become a nurse or become a teacher or get into business.
And for me, it wasn't that clear, I knew that I loved sport. At that point, you know, females in sport didn't have as many opportunities as they did now.
For me, I was a bit unsure and thought, you know, maybe I'd like to go study personal training or fitness or something like that, before maybe going to university, which is what a lot of my friends did.
I went out and enrolled with the support of my family at the Australian Institute of fitness, which is an education college based around fitness massage business. And to this date, I still think that it was probably one of the best things that I ever did. Because within that course, it was a face to face intensive.
And although it was a course, based on you know, Exercise Science really and understanding anatomy and physiology, we learn these incredible skills about how to communicate, how to interview someone, how to, you know, think positively and gratitude and all of these different skills that I probably didn't learn in school.
You know, even things like sales skills and new pre-framing and re-framing and how to network or how to walk into a room and build some relationships. So that was a really pivotal piece in my young life, and I'll forever be grateful for the skills that I learned there. And funnily enough, at the end of the course, I actually ended up getting a job opportunity to work at the college as a learning consultant.
And again, you know, had never thought of that as you know, being the step in my career but thought, why not, you know, I had loved studying there, I could see that the culture of this business, you know, ran through the school itself.
It had this really positive, hard working progressive culture that I wanted to be a part of. So that's where I really stepped into, you know, I guess the education side, working with candidates, you know, working towards targets and those sorts of things.
I had so much fun. And again, those little micro skills that I learned, were just building a really nice foundation for me to then progress into the rest of my career.
And so that's really where I got into, again, working with candidates, I was helping students decide on where they might like to go with their career.
It could be students that were, you know, finishing school like I was, it could be people that were changing careers that had been in accounting for 10 years, and then wanted to get into fitness, or massage or start their own business.
And then from there, I really kind of progressed in an opportunity came up at seek learning, which is, again, where I started my career at seek, seek learning was also on the education side working with candidates. And there, I worked in a diverse range of industries.
So I helped candidates in the property industry, to property, real estate, and Construction Trades and services. And then finally, business, business programs in business accounting, finance, MBAs, those sorts of things.
So, in seek learning, I was lucky enough to be in Sydney, I was working with candidates across Australia. And I was there for about four years had so much fun again, I'm so grateful to work at a company like Seek, because they really value the company culture, progressing there people.
And it's just a really, I guess, yeah, a wholesome place to work.
I was lucky enough to work in Sydney. And from there, I had the opportunity to move to Western Australia for 12 months. So I moved to Western Australia. And this is where I really started working on the client side.
So working with recruitment agencies across Western Australia, and helping them with their seek relationship. So again, that the market insights, you know, looking at applications, looking at ad performance, looking at contract negotiation, all those sorts of skills. And then from Western Australia, I've landed in Queensland.
I've really had a Yeah, nice diverse range of cities that I've lived in, which has been absolutely incredible. And but also a few different markets as well. So long story short, that's kind of where I'm at today.
Petra
I love it. And why I was so fascinated by your background story is that you didn't go the traditional pathway.
And it was such a diverse range of roles and organizations and so forth. But the common thread there was you use your soft skills you use what makes you unique, what do you enjoy doing, you don't need to have a certificate in communications with relationships. But this is one of the key skills that we need today. And in the future of work.
Gaby:
It's such a good point.
And I think probably one of the key things that I've really had to do in my career is roleplays. So with communication, it is something that can be learned. And not everyone is naturally great at communication or confident with it.
And even from that very first role at the Australian Institute of fitness. Every morning, we do two to three role plays.
And we could you know, we might be role playing out introduction, when we call someone, or we might be, you know, role playing out interview or our, you know, price presentation of the courses or whatever it might be, we were role playing, and we were really practicing our craft.
And you're absolutely right, it was definitely not the kind of traditional sense of, you know, finish school, go to uni, get a job, it's definitely been like, you know, really, I guess, finding out what I'm passionate about.
If someone asked me, hey, at 18, you're going to be passionate about working with clients and talking about products and training people, I would have, you know, wouldn't have had any idea.
But now where I'm at is I'm really lucky. And I've just started my MBA. So my Masters of Business with QUT, so I've just finished my first year there, you know, and I'm progressing.
And I'm doing some university level study. And I'm really learning some theories to back up this experience that I have. And you know, when we talk about University, it's a really big investment when you think of it from a time perspective, and a money perspective.
So for me now, it's just such great timing, because all the things that I'm learning, I'm implementing it every single day at work, but I'm also really confident that what I'm studying is what I'm passionate about, and it's something that I'm going to use which now I've got a lot of friends that have had to chop and change through uni and you know how hex, and it's been quite stressful because it was, you know, a team that had to decide what they were going to do for the rest of their life.
And that can be really hard.
For some people, it is hard, and you haven't got the life experience and also not the exposure, you don't know what it actually is like to work in this industry and his profession.
Petra:
To be honest, I actually would prefer going your pathway, especially for the future of work, because you are now consciously deciding to go to university because you also have the financial backing, and you can look after yourself.
And it's not just because - well my friends, and my family said I should do it. So I'll probably do it and then regret it.
That probably also leads us in our first skill sets and trends related question:
What have we seen in terms of changes, especially over the last 9 to 12 months, before and maybe then during COVID-19 Hit?
What kind of changes have we seen?
Gaby:
I think if we think about like some skill sets and trends, I would definitely say that we have seen a large population of the workforce upskilled in the basics of technology.
Because look at us now, you know, we're using zoom every day, you know, whether you to check, you know, a child at school, or parents at work, we have had to learn how to use technology that we probably weren't using in our daily lives, you know, whether it's a yoga instructor that's teaching a class, or running a sales presentation, or a product team running a morning huddle.
So I think in terms of some really like basic skills that we've seen, largely people get across definitely being that technology piece. I think in terms of soft skills, it would be really fair to say that we've all had to work on our communication skills, because we've had to try a little bit harder, and be a little bit more organized around when we're having those meaningful conversations.
Because we don't have those kind of, you know, coffee chats or hallway kind of walks where you'd naturally see someone and chat and see how their weekend was going.
So I think being made meaningful around communication.
And, you know, whether it be, you know, I know that with my leader, we do a catch up once a fortnight, and we just do a call and we do a walk.
I walk around the block a few times as we chat, because zoom fatigue is real. We're on zoom for the rest of the week with lots of external internal meetings. So that was our time to just check in and see how, you know, how is the weekend what's going on in your personal lives, because I have noticed that I think if you haven't planned those types of meetings, you do lose some of that kind of social relationship building, because you get onto a zoom, and then it's, you know, jumping in straight away to the, to the professional, you know, whatever you're working on at that time. So there's some of the smallest things that I've seen in terms of, I guess, skills.
Petra
Excellent. And, you know, you also mentioned, the way how we work has changed so much. And we said we had to upskill and kind of the basics, because we don't have this watercooler conversations where we build actually the relationships, they're not built in professional meetings, it's having those casual conversations.
And this is probably also what impacts so many cultures, especially those cultures were built on in person activities on face to face contact on meetings and lunches, and whatever it might be.
And that probably also leads us into our next question:
What do those changes mean, for 2021? What are some of the predictions that we are going to see? And continue to see?
Gaby:
Yeah, it's a great question.
So I think one of the things that's probably been, I would say, a positive from this is, if you take me for an example, so I work in Queensland, but Seek’s head office is in Melbourne.
The bulk of my team are in Melbourne and Sydney. And what that meant previously is whenever I was in the office, we'd often do a team meeting and there'd be, you know, 10 people in Melbourne, and then one person in Queensland on a zoom screen.
What I found it was it was often hard for me to feel like I was fully engaged in the conversation because, you know, I'd miss the little whisper or, or the joke that was kind of in the back end.
So I think the one thing that was really exciting in terms of that relationship pieces, because everyone's been at home, we've all been an equal zoom screen on the computer.
It's actually brought our team together, when we think about how we were communicating across, I guess, a national perspective. So I think those types of things will definitely be something to keep.
So that's actually balancing that culture, you know, across a diverse workforce that maybe is, you know, interstate or international. I think you know what it's here to stay, I think we can probably all agree that you know, flexibility of work and having the option of working from home is definitely going to be here to stay.
I think we're all still working through what that looks like. And I guess where the equilibrium is or where, where the balance is in terms of flexible working, but also building that culture and that connection, that we've seen so many benefits, you know, people connecting with their family, dropping their kids to school, or having breakfast, or, you know, having the house nice and clean and organized, or, you know, doing yoga at lunchtime, or whatever balance looks like for you.
I think, you know, that flexibility of workplace candidates, they know that they can be productive, and be at home. So I think candidates are really going to be demanding that and hires are really going to need to look at what their strategy is.
But then the other side to that is, you know, what does that look like for long term cultures of a business?
What does that look like for onboarding new starters?
And like I said before, what is that?
What does that balance?
So when we know that, you know, for me, personally, after six months of zoom, that first client training session when I was in the office, and I felt the team's energy, and we were chatting, and I heard all those, those micro expressions, and there's body like language, you know, and there's, all those times, I was like, Ah, this is amazing.
Zoom can't replace that.
So having that balance was something that I'm really now grateful for. But still, we know that, you know, candidates want this flexibility. And we know that it works.
So I think that's something that that's definitely here to stay. Now, what was the second part of your question?
Petra
In terms of career trends, or job trends? What have you seen with job ads?
For example, what has been the changes? Are there more contract work opportunities?
Gaby:
So Good question. So this is something that we've been tracking really closely. And so seeks data is a leading indicator of what's happening in the market, business confidence, employment, all those types of things.
And it's definitely been on a bit of a roller coaster this year, that's for sure.
If we look back to, I guess, February is very much the state that we use is kind of pre COVID. So if I talk about pre COVID data, it will be comparing to February, which is when the virus hadn't really hit Australia yet.
And then we look at April, April was very much probably the worst date for us when the whole country was in the midst of lockdown.
So we think our, you know, cost our minds back to April, at April, we were at about minus 66% of that volume.
There was 66% less job ads on the Seek prior to covid. So that was huge. You know, if we compare that to the global financial crisis, the GFC saw that kind of decrease over three months, in COVID, resort over about two weeks.
That's probably what really shocked us was just this, I guess, the speed that it dropped in, I think now when we look back at it, and we think about the lockdowns and what happened, it does make that sense, you know, the whole country, you know, closed overnight. And that meant for the job market, it was really tricky.
And so that's kind of what we saw in April.
And naturally to that, you know, the ads in Seek dropping also reduced the participation rate, so less people were actually participating in the job market, specifically among female candidates, which was quite interesting.
We had less candidates, but we had even less job ads.
So for a candidate, we know that that made it really, really tricky, very, very competitive. And then from hire, as if they were hiring, they were receiving hundreds and hundreds of applications, which was also quite hard to deal with. So that was kind of where we were at in April.
And then we definitely go on a journey from there in terms of that supply and demand piece. And I'm really excited now to announce that of the day that we released yesterday. We've actually now got 1% more job ads on see than we did this time last year.
And that's huge, because that's the first time we've seen year on year growth since the pandemic. So that's really exciting. It's a big one.
We've all been kind of waiting for that.
And as I was saying to you before we started: I think everything was shifted out a little bit. So you and I, you know, we're talking now in December, so this data was released for November.
And really you know, where we've normally seen, I guess, busy during October, November getting ready for like that hospitality and tourism and retail spot that was all shifted.
So it was shifted towards December, you know, predominantly because of the border opens. And so Victoria and those sorts of things.
So very, very exciting from that point of view.
It is becoming almost a candidate market again, in some sectors
I'm just having a look at the month on month growth. If we're comparing October 2020, to November 2020, the areas that we're really seeing a lot of growth is hospitality, and tourism, which makes a lot of sense.
That's about 29% month on month, for 29% more job ads than last month.
Insurance and superannuation, consulting and strategy, HR and recruitment, which is a good one, because if we know that they're busy, that's really going to help them market science and technology and retail as well.
We’re seeing some of our highest growth month on month, and some of the sectors that are still lagging a little bit and not growing as quickly as sectors such as legal, that's
2% month on month.
We're definitely seeing that really kind of slower to pick up.
And then banking and financial services at 3%, as well. So that's what we're seeing with some of the data. I think, if we talk about areas that we're seeing, I guess, that that top line of growth, it's definitely your hospitality, you trade and services and also about health care and medical excellence.
Well, it clearly has shown a big shift, because it wasn't there, you know, a few months ago.
Petra:
And have you also seen any changes in the type of jobs? Are there more? Is it back to full time permanent roles?
Or is the more contractor engagement or part time?
Gaby:
Yeah,
that's a really good question. I don't have any hard data to report on this.
But I can definitely tell you what I'm hearing in the marketplace.
And this is a pretty good indication, some working with 50 different Queensland recruitment agencies that are covering this market.
And again, to compare to April in April, we really saw a drop off in permanent work. I had some recruitment agencies that recruited predominately permanent and overnight, a lot of their roles were gone.
So we definitely saw a reduction that that the permanent jobs that were on site, that is definitely picking up and again, month a month, it's getting better and better.
But I am also noticing a trend of a lot more kind of 12 months contracts where maybe businesses would have normally offered a permanent position, they're now offering 12 month contracts, again, to see what happens.
And I think, you know, this morning, we're just talking about, you know, that the small surgeon cases in Sydney in I think that's probably a good example of, you know, the hesitant kind of, I guess, business confidence around bush fires, it's still not under control, we don't have, you know, a cure as yet out to the public.
So there is still some hesitation in the market. But definitely month a month, things are looking better and better for permanent roles.
I think we've definitely seen probably an increase in contract roles from my gut feel and conversations I'm having in market.
Petra:
Yes, I totally agree with that. I've seen it over the last few months actually also from clients who would literally want just a consultant working on certain projects for you know, just a project and then get out again, because it reduces the risk, reduces fixed costs, and at the same time for candidates, they also have more flexibility and you know, I'm a big fan of a portfolio career meaning having different income streams and multiple engagements and doesn't need to be a full time engagement could be two hours there 10 hours a day or whatever it might be that you're not at risk if an industry or profession goes down overnight, as we've seen now can happen and that you at least Can you know, diversify your and has your eggs in different baskets.
Gaby:
Absolutely. And I think that if we think about like the learning side of the business in education, we're definitely seeing this rise in like the micro credential life short courses to upskill in different areas.
And, and like we were saying before, and it's probably the most utilized word in 2020.
But that kind of, you know, ability to pivot.
You know, we saw so many different businesses, you know, supplying one thing and then you know, vodka distilleries and making hand sanitizer or you know, what, you know, predominantly, face to face bricks and mortar businesses to pivoting online.
I think that was pretty exciting because we talk about the future of work and working from home and going digital. It feels like we've been talking about for so long and it was still years away, but it really shifted everything forward in terms of having to adapt.
I think you're absolutely right, having things that you can do on the side, your small business, having some micro credentials and upskilling, and having different things on the go and multiple income streams that really gives you some security and you're in control.
And from that candidate perspective, I know that during the midst of most of the restrictions, we did see a reduction in candidates who normally would be like monitoring the market and interested in changing roles that reduced to candidates that were in permanent roles.
They were harder to convince to look at new opportunities, because if it was only a contract role, they would say, No, I'm just gonna stay.
And I think that really spoke to workforce culture, I think companies that really had a great workforce culture before the pandemic really shine through.
And people were really grateful, and really happy to kind of back them through that period, based on that, that security and what they've done and getting them from working from home to online.
Petra:
And what I also like about building a portfolio career is that you build a diverse skill set much, much quicker. Like I launched a podcast and, I don't know how many online courses of the last few months and then I ran a leadership retreat again in September, and even I realized my skill level has up levelled so much compared to last year and the year before because I've been running them for the last few years.
And this is exactly the power, as you said before, to pivot, if an industry goes down, or the professional is not in demand anymore, you can use still those skills and hone in on to use somewhere else in an industry that is in demand.
And then also probably brings us into our next question, what is the best way to upskill? You mentioned microcredit credentials, doesn't mean that university degrees are no longer relevant, or what does it mean?
Gaby:
It's another really good question. So I think with university degrees … there's going to be particular roles where you know- if you want to be a doctor, if you want to be a lawyer, or whatever it might be, you're really passionate about that, and you know, that, then obviously, you're going to go to university, and you're going to get that degree, and I'm so supportive of that.
I've got a lot of friends that did that, and a super successful and, you know, all the nurses and the people on the front line during COVID, you know, without them, we'd be in a pretty tricky situation.
There are also sectors that are really indicative of candidates as well, you know, particularly like age care, and those sorts of things.
But I think you are right, when we think about our careers now, and how many times we change a role, let alone a career like you, you're changing and, at the rate that technology is changing each year, it's so different in terms of what we have available, and how we live our life.
I know that at Seek, we often look at just how like the candidates behaviour has changed, and how they use our product, you know, 10 years ago, and most people were searching for a job on desktop.
Now 71% of candidates search by mobile, so all of the products that we need to make on mobile, and it just shows how you know how quickly things change. And that's only only going to get faster.
I am a big fan of small micro credentials to get skilled in a certain area, whether that be, you know, a short coding course, or whether that be on emotional intelligence, or neuro linguistic programming, or, yeah, how to do a podcast or you know, a small business course or a leadership course
I think those things are going to be so important as you progress in your career
When you change from being the person that's on the tools into a leadership role, doing a short course to bridge that gap, so that you're prepared, I think, is really important.
It doesn't always have to be home and go to uni. I'm gonna study part time, that's gonna take me four years. If you want to do that, that's fine as well.
So I think, definitely in place, it is relevant, but I don't think you always have to do it that way. You know, I've got some examples of incredible leaders and mentors in my life that went out and got some experience first and then went back to uni.
You know, I've got people that never went to uni and have just done courses, like I think the power of a TAFE course. I think it is very much underestimated.
There are so many short courses you can do now, in the technology sector, I think there's probably one thing that we can all agree on is that:
As humans, we need to know how to use technology and it's going to be around how we want to stay relevant.
We don't want to be the, you know, the old arts or the grandmother that can't use the iPhone and talk to the grandkids on FaceTime. So I definitely think in that particular area, even if you feel like you're in an industry that you know, isn't technology, you're still going to use those skills. And again, the pandemic has just proven that.
Petra
That's such a great quote in terms of how we want to stay relevant. And this is exactly what we are going to cover in part two, on what you can do today to future proof yourself. So maybe to wrap up our first part, what are how would you describe 2021 in terms of the trends predictions in only a few words, or you know, just a snapshot of what we can expect next year?
Gaby:
Okay, I think we can definitely expect more working from home, I think we can expect and more flexible work arrangements, which is a huge win.
I think we can continue to expect networking and networking differently. And that's probably one of my top tips of progressing through your career your network is absolutely King.
Whether that's doing it virtually or face to face, that's something that we're going to have to adjust to, I think, keeping your online platforms up to date.
Whether it be your Seek profile, or your social media or you know, other profiles that you have online, keeping that up to date is really important, because that's where hires can look to find you.
And you know, if you are in the search for a role in 2021, you know, it is really competitive out there.
We've had a crazy year in the employment market and there's a lot of candidates looking.
Petra:
So how can you stand out?
Gaby:
One of my probably biggest bits of advice, and it seems so simple, but if you can get if you can reach out to a hiring manager, and have a chat to them first. It's probably the best thing you can do.
Because if your CV is sitting amongst 150, the hiring manager might not even get to see you, you really want to give them a call and get in front of them.
Because when they know you, they will have a look at your CV, because sometimes there's so many CVs that they might miss you by mistake.
Petra:
And that's a great Segway into what we're covering in part two:
How do we actually do it because everyone is talking about you need to do this and this, we are all about the practical tips and tricks.
Make sure you tune into Part Two and learn all about what you need to do today and also actually how you go about doing it to make your career dreams in 2021 a reality.
So thanks so much for your insights, and we will see you in part two.
Gaby:
No worries and thanks Petra.
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