Design Thinking For Career Planning & Development (Interview with Ale Wiecek)
Petra
Now some research suggests that we need to change careers every one half to two years, which means we have to constantly reinvent ourselves and switch careers more often and also more significantly. And it comes down to knowing what you can use from where, what you've got, and make the next step bigger and better.
And I'm so excited today to be joined by somebody who knows a thing or two on all things design thinking, also for designing your own life and your own career. So, I would love to welcome today's guest, Ollie rajic, who is the founder of square one, and also an innovative and design thinker, on how you can actually design your life and your career on your terms. Thank you so much for being here.
Ale
Thank you so much, Petra, for having me such a pleasure being here with you today.
Petra
Now, can you talk us through a little bit about your background? How did you get in this space? Yeah,
Ale
I guess long story short, I was in the corporate world for good 20 something years of my life. And I was heavily involved in marketing and communications for many, many years working for very large brands, I kind of really thought that at the time, you know, climbing the corporate ladder, you know, being having these great salaries, and perhaps these, you know, these fantasies of being an expert in in whichever aspect of my career I needed to be was exactly what was going to be fulfilling.
And little did I know that I guess, after I had my two babies, and I realized that I wanted to start my own business, I really decided that it was really important for humans to understand themselves better, and really stop and pause and reflect and really what's important to them.
Taking away a lot of those norms that we get from society, and what our parent parents sometimes teach us, and what we get from school, you know, to really pause and reflect and go, what do I want out of life, you know, what will make me very happy. And you might not be there Monday to Friday job, it might not be the salary might be something else.
So I started a consultancy, obviously, square one. And our first objective was to work on design innovation from big brands. And I decided about a year ago that it was time for me to pivot into what I love the most, which was utilizing the same tools, but on people's lives.
Petra
I love it.
And also, because this is something that nobody teaches you how you can reinvent yourself how you can redesign your life.
And it's not a traditional progress anymore, that we have the nine to five, we're staying in one role for the rest of our lives. But we have to change and pivot more frequently. And unfortunately, nobody takes us there.
So when redundancy comes in, are you get sick Are you simply lose interest in your industry or profession? People are struggling with what's next. So I'm really looking forward to dig deeper into how we can actually take it. Now to get everyone on the same page. What exactly is design thinking? How would you describe it?
Ale:
I know, it is a beautiful methodology, I guess you can call it some methodology, and some mindset.
And it's also a tool that has been utilized for many, many years by organizations, mostly, that really need to tackle a challenge in a way that is very human centre.
So it's really about understanding the end users, and end users perspective before anything else. As you can imagine, there's a lot of companies that jump straight into solution mode.
And they might not be thinking of the end user per se. And what happens is that a lot of those solutions fail.
So what design thinking does is that it really minimizes any risk because you're putting the user first empathizing with them.
They're finding what triggers them what's challenging, what do they want, and then ideating ways that they can then receive that surveys that product or that experience. And then what you do is like you kind of put that together, what we call like an experiment or prototype, you show it to them, see what they think, then you might pivot, you might continue with that.
Or you might stop that idea altogether. And then you're really that's how when you do your testing.
So design thinking is, is a five foot or five stage process that can happen across a length of time to really empathize with the end user.
And from there do audio solutions and ideas for their very own benefit, pretty much. So that's how he's using the GoPro wall.
And he says that he used the same way on life design as well.
Petra
So how would you go about the life design because you can't necessarily get feedback from the end user because the end user is satisfied. We still need to fit into an environment. So how would we go about this?
Ale
Yeah, so same sort of process of what what we've done for the framework is that actually, we utilize pretty face to that empathy phase called initiate.
So the initiation phase, it could be, you know, you're still, you know, working for a company not feeling quite right, something is really annoying, you're bothering you. And so you then go into level, why do I feel this way.
And so when you really have that decision or made a decision, that's when you get to your empathy, and the empathy, how it works for an individual is what you're designing for yourself, which is really tricky.
Because we're not sometimes the best collaborators, we don't collaborate well with ourselves.
Meaning that we're very, you know, we have a lot of beliefs about ourselves. And we have a lot of constraints and, and we're all out sometimes our worst enemy.
So we really need to kind of be very, very reflective, and really start analyzing, you know, what is it that you want to get out of your life in the next little while, but really pause and reflect through questioning:
· What do I value?
· What do I want out of life?
· Like, what are the things are important to me?
· What am my skills, the skill sets that I use versus your skill set that I'm really good at?
· What are the strengths that I have what I want?
· Where do I see myself in five years?
Empathy is actually analysing yourself is gathering depth tons of data that you never do, because we never stop, you know, we never really go and think about ourselves beyond maybe January first, when we're working on our new year's resolutions.
And little do we know that we're actually working on things are not important to us, because we haven't actually stuff and reflected.
So that's how the empathy first phase work.
And then from there, you're like, Okay, well, I know myself pretty well, I would they like to design something about my health and find my health and my wellness, or I actually want to work on my financial sort of space, or I actually want to work on my purpose and my meaning.
So you apply the same sort of tools where you could come up with ideas that you can apply.
And the beauty of the of the framework is that it takes you it moves you into action, which is probably the most scary thing for people to do.
And we say, look, we don't these doesn't need to be perfect, we just need you to go into trying stuff and, and try tested comeback pivot data. And it's a mindset shift more than anything.
I think what live design does, is shifts the mind, because it frees people from that it has to be perfect. But it really doesn't have to be. So that is the framework applied to people's life.
Petra
That's such a good idea.
And in the end, that's what we need to learn much more of, but because you also said, we're so busy with our lives, we are not empathetic with ourselves, which is chasing one big mountain after the next and one goal after the next.
So what would be common feelings or thoughts that would come up first?
Or is it I'm not sure what it is I'm successful, I've got the grave role, but something is missing an account, put a finger on it, what kind of thoughts would come that we actually start the process.
Ale:
Yeah, like he, a lot of the feelings that really come from not being quite aligned to you could be your behaviour and you know, how I show up to the world.
And that could be you know, under many circumstances, it could be how you're showing up to your family at home, you know, you being short to your kids, to your partner, to your to your family, are you enjoying, you know, going to do those things that you go to do every day, you know, whether it's work or whether you are in a maybe you are actually an intrapreneur and you're done.
You're not meant to be to be an entrepreneur, you know, like it could be whatever you're doing that day, how are you child showing up for that. And I think if he's that lingering, it's almost like that lingering feeling of something isn't quite right. Something isn't quite fitting in.
And he's almost like, you know, when you're trying to put two pieces of Lego together, you go one piece, but the other one is wrong, and you just really trying to put it together it really doesn't like you want and you're like oh I'm so annoying.
This is all the piece that is missing.
I think we underestimate the power of our intuition.
And I think when you feel deep, deep inside there is something missing is because varies.
And so that could actually be you know how well you're sleeping.
Are you very stressed, are you gaining weight, are you feeling that you're out of out of you know, you're not in control of your life, there is so much that could be so many ways that he could show up.
It's very different for everybody.
For me, for example, I was feeling very, very down at a time and feeling like I needed to, I needed to find something that could make me very happy, mentally and professionally. And for a lot of people, you know, it could be, you know, just so many other things. So it just shows up in different ways.
Petra:
That's a great point that it's quite individual.
And sometimes we don't realize it, I had exactly the same experience that I woke up and it was already tired. I put on 10kg, within six months, even though I trained for four hours every day, I didn't eat much.
I was just the stress and the cortisol and nobody could identify what the issue was.
But I knew there was something wrong, but at the same time is also scary to change anything.
Now how we move into the next stage, so we have identified something is not quite right. How can we've maybe even identified what the issue is, but how do we overcome the fear of actually changing because it's scary, if we're going to somewhere where we don't know what's happening,
Ale:
It's almost like the framework for what we work on.
And that's what we are your signs to the work that we do is that the way your brain is a structure, and actually nutrition as well, like you don't think of what you eat, actually how much it affects your productivity and your well being, you know, beyond having the odd burger here on there.
Like if you don't know how your brain works and how your nutrition affects your body, you actually don't realize that, that you're not making the actions that you need to take because your body's actually no coping, your body's not ready, your brain is not ready.
So one of the things that we work on ease brain, like setting up new neuroplasticity pathways in your brain.
And we use a couple of techniques from hypnotherapy, which is a great sort of way. And he's not the old traditional hypnotherapy, what we do is that we utilize this great technique called the three piece, and the three pieces basically writing down every single day, throughout your day, or at the end of the day or the beginning of the day. What are your positive interactions, your positive activities and your positive thoughts.
And I don't know if you've ever done these, but in the past, I always struggled to write down like a gratitude list, you know, like, you got to be grateful. It's like, I'm grateful. But what am I’m grateful for?
And then you was like, I don't feel this, you know, I don't feel being grateful for having a roof over my head.
I don't feel it.
Yes, I'm grateful.
But do I feel grateful.
So what we're trying to change is the feelings and emotions that you're linking those positive behaviours, interactions and activities.
And so what that does is it starts setting up neuroplasticity pathways between your primitive brain which is the one that actually making you miss making, you know, do things is the one that is stopping you from moving on from where you want to where you want to be.
What we do is we use that technique and what we'd like keeping the therapy, all the hypnotherapy techniques to really start getting you into action.
It's really interesting, because the moment that our brain, your primitive brain is less prominent, your rational brain really comes in and what he does is that your rational brain just goes like, yeah, it's a bit scary.
But let's give it a good God, instead of your primitive brain going I doing saying you're not want to do that I you.
We are then getting the print the rational brain. And it's incredible, the results that we see, like people start trying stuff, they don't feel as fearful and anxious and as exhausted, because it's exhausting, you know, it can be really scary.
With that mindset, and also we work on a lot of routines and habits because we know the power of having a good routine, that together with a couple of mindfulness techniques, we really bring people into moving into action. And because we're very focused on like, yeah, we need to get you from here to here we have we're very action focused. So people then feel that they're getting traction and nothing that is when you are feeling fulfilled. And that's when you feel like you can stick to a process that even though it might feel scary, you can still do it. And that sense of accomplishment is what gets people to see I can do this, and I'm going to continue with this.
Petra
I love this very practical exercise because you're right, it's so hard for someone to say what are you grateful for? Well, yeah, everything.
But are you really focusing on anything? So focusing on x actual activities and experiences? That's a great idea.
Would you also address that in the other way in the negative way? Did we pinpoint what is actually holding you back or not?
Ale:
Absolutely. So yeah, so we really kind of like the best way I can do it.
It's almost like when you do like, like an inventory of your life.
So in that empathy kind of defined phase, you're like, well, what is holding you back? And and there are many things obviously, you know, we're not we're not psychology, so we're very mindful that you know, we bring different expertise to this process to help us and to help other people.
But there's a lot of there's a lot of You know, the first seven years of your life and what you have stored in your brain is almost like that database, and the emotions that you think and the thoughts that you have about yourself, how you can start changing those behaviors.
That's really when we started looking at changing those as well. To get people more into a space of level, it's not everything, you know, it's not the negative side of things is, if you're saying those things to yourself, because, you know, I'm no good to know for I kind of know, I can't try that.
Because, you know, I'm not good at doing this or doing that, then it's really about what you're telling yourself.
It’s an automatic process, the moment you start really changing how your brain is, it's been wired, which we people don't think they can change the brain.
We can, and it's possible. And people really start thinking more positively instead of those negative things.
Petra:
That's such a good strategy.
Because where focus goes, energy flows. And if you're focusing on the positives or the negatives, you will get the results based on it.
Ale:
Absolutely.
Petra:
Now, for many who wants to reinvent themselves, they know something is not quite right.
If it is nagging feeling, they have addressed the issues, but then it's like, but I wouldn't know what else I can do.
I've been in this industry for 10, 20, 30 plus years, I've been in this profession for so many years. I don't know anything else. I don't know what I should do next, how would you go from there to actually idea or create a bit of a vision of what's possible?
Ale:
Yeah, I mean, first, I will probably say, to embrace a mindset of curiosity, being very open and trusting of the process, a lot of people are very good, very eager to come up with solutions right away, we don't have the right data in front of us.
So a lot of people would say, well, I've been doing this for 25, 30 years, there is no, there is no way I'm going to be able to do something else.
But that's completely wrong data. If you were to pause and actually understand your skill said, I need maybe even start thinking and deep diving into those passions that you've had but never pursued. jewel, then go that well, actually, there is something in there.
And so what we ask people is like to be very curious, and also be very comfortable with ambiguity.
Because the process could be pretty ambiguous in a way that you know, is not is we teach it as a linear process. It could be really scary.
Like, it's almost like, you don't want to find stuff about yourself, you know, you don't want to find it, because it's a bit scary. What if you find that, you know, you should be being you should be in an audience are very creative.
And accounting, you know, that's a scary like, what, what does that mean?
You know, what are you going to do with that information?
So, we ask people to be very curious, we ask people to be comfortable with ambiguity. We also ask people to do a very simple exercise, which is common, yeah, committing to the process.
But we also want to people that started this process with us to really start looking at, you know, where do they see themselves in five years?
And it's such a simple, no brainer exercise but actually working out your bold vision.
Literally think:
· Where am I gonna wake up, in five years time from today?
· What am I going to be?
· What does what does my day looks like that day?
· What are the things that I'm doing? What are the skills that I'm using?
· Who am I hanging out with?
· What does my bank account looks like?
· Do I spend a day with this person?
We have a really beautiful meditation where we ask them the visuals to do that exercise. And a lot of people cry in the process, because they actually see things that it couldn't see.
And having that clarity is what it allows people to go, okay, actually, I could look at my skill set and what I can do, then if I'm not an accountant, then I could be something else can I? and really being curious about like, yeah, maybe let's, let's figure this thing out. That's a very good starting point.
Petra:
I love this process.
Because in the end, if you get new perspectives, you're also much more optimistic because now all of a sudden, it's not just left or right of like a wide, it's all the shades of Gray's and all the ways in between.
So you don't have as much stress that you have to perform in one way or the other way. There's nothing else there. And I think traditional education also impacts our thinking because you are trying to set account and you're trained as an architect.
So this is what you do for the rest of your life.
But looking at the future of work, where so many roles and skill sets are getting made redundant every single year, if not every single month.
There's something new out in the market that makes another task that we are doing redundant
We need to be able to think more lateral and also connected pieces. Now, for anyone who says, I've got no creativity, I have meditated in my life. I'm still not sure what I should do. Is there any, any exercise that we can implement to start just thinking a little bit outside our box?
Ale:
Yeah, I think, um, I would really, I would probably say, obviously, Matt, mindfulness and meditation really helps us understand our thought process and understand our thoughts.
That’s definitely, a big one that even though it's almost like, you know, when you go to the doctor, and you might be, you know, having some cholesterol issues, and the book is like, you got to eat houses, like, yeah, of course, I know that.
But one thing is, knowing one thing is doing it, you know.
So I genuinely believe that before you tackle anything, like go to the gym, or do this, do that, it's like your habits and routines. It's like babies, babies are happy to change their nappies, if they go to bed at the same time, they eat a meal at the same time.
And it's because we're very predictable humans are when things aren't predictable, we struggle.
So I probably say if you if you could get started with what would I change out of my routine, to be alive to maybe that one thing that I want to try, whether it might be read a book, whether it might be learned about how to actually have a better routine, you know, just carve 25 to 30 minutes of your day, at least for a week, and see how you're able to proactively start looking at embedding new ways of thinking. And I think that will be really good.
You know, we we brain on ourselves, maybe watching Netflix, when maybe you better off doing something that will be more aligned to your creativity, which could actually be learning about something or talking to people about something, it could be networking, you know, you could be finding stuff, online, and creativity, we're all very creative. and creativity really comes from being very open, and experiencing so many different things.
So you're able to really articulate this beautiful melody of interactions and activities that ultimately will give you a sense of something.
And that sense of some of something is so fulfilling in itself. And that creativity is that feeling of having this melody of information that you can actually touch you with your fingers with your soul and with your mind.
Petra:
It's such a beautiful description. And now when we know a little bit already, okay, I could do this, I could do that feeling a bit more positive about it, it would lead into the next stage, which is the prototype, how would it look like in a career perspective or life changing perspective?
Ale:
We always have people you know, like, for example, in the accountant example, we're not telling us like, you gotta quit that job. If you learn that your whole thing is about being a scuba diver instructor, you know, like we're not, I'm telling you don't, don't leave that job. If you need it for your financial stability. Don't quit that. But try a minimal viable option of that.
Meaning you might actually go and do some scuba diving course, you might talk to friends who might have done some scuba diving, you might read books about it.
So the prototyping is actually going into, I want to create a list of activities, and at least have experiences that I can actually test.
And a lot of those could be conversations, a lot of those could be going on the weekend away and actually doing scuba diving course just to actually see if you enjoy it. And that's the prototype like we call it a prototype because you know, it's an experiment, it's like, we just want you to go try it.
We're not asking you to leave your accounting job, you might actually realize that scuba diving is no your thing. And that's great, because you actually realize that you will, three options happen when your prototype and test which is kind of up together, sort of phase up, but meaning it was kind of something about scuba diving, but I don't want to be an instructor maybe I want to be a scuba diving.
I'm want to join scuba diving club, or whatever it is your idea, meaning I do not enjoy these at all. What was I thinking, which is great, you validated that, Oh, your idea will continue meaning Oh, my goodness, this was the missing link this whole time.
And so were we asking people to just be very open to the process creatively, with a list of activities, and lists of experiences that you can try conversations things I do and then just test them out.
When it comes into that testing phases, we're really asking people to hold themselves accountable. So we talk about accountability very heavily.
We ask people to then maybe ask a friend, or someone who can really create a bit of accountability network, we create a lot of accountability buddies in the in the work that we do.
But let's say you know, you have a friend who can check with you every now and again going, Hey, how are you going? How you're tracking? And we also ask individuals to go through a bit of a testing phase, like how am I feeling with this? You know, am I still in? Am I am I kind of realizing that this is it, or is not it for something else. So that's kind of that process there.
Petra
And, you know, it comes down to what you said before being committed, because in the end, you can't think those experiences and those changes, you have to experiment it. And that also means to do some research to actually get out there, doing it, reading about it, because if you can't be fully immersed in it, it's gonna be hard when all the hurdles come up that you seek with it.
And often people have a very different idea, a very romantic idea about the industry or profession.
But when it comes down to doing all the groundwork that also goes in with like, every profession is like, Nah, probably not so much for me, unless you didn't actually, with speaking so much. A lot of my clients and I want to get on stage, I want to be a public speaker.
And this is great, but they don't see how much work actually goes behind it, like I've recorded and rerecord re listened.
I don't know how many hundreds of hours. And this is what not many want to actually do or prepare a speech in front of mirror all the time.
It's not just showing up doing an amazing speech and getting out again, but this is where people are like, Nah, I'm not sure if that's really me.
So it's good that you put together those little prototype experiences, get the hands on experience, and then validate it, it could also be completely saying, no, it's on me or totally, that's what I want to do. And it takes that pressure away. So that's, that's the beauty of that of that part of the process.
Now, that's been exciting.
Have you got any tips, tricks, tools, strategies that we are exercises that we could implement straightaway, to start and lead bits to integrate design thinking into our everyday life? maybe want to be better with our heads or with our finances or with our careers? Where do we start?
Ale:
I think the first thing is just to, you know, pick something that if you were to, we talked about, like the 12 elements of our top 12 areas of our lives, and if we don't have it off the top of my head is a long list, but it could be your well being your purpose, your finances, your relationships, your career, your life, or life purpose, bunch of different things, if you if you were to systematically look at them, zero to 10, going zero, my that aspect of my life is pretty bad and 10, that aspect of my life is pretty good.
Pick one thing within that area, any areas of your life, and you will know people will know these because you know, we just don't want to see it. But we know pick that area and think of what can you bring into your life for to make that better.
So that's a five saying, you know, your healthiest, maybe a five out of 10. Maybe you're not eating the right food, maybe you're not exercising? Maybe you're not, you know, you know sleeping?
Well, whatever it is, what can you make? What can you do to make that from five to six, or even from five to 5.2?
What is a little action that you can take?
Without going through the whole framework, you can actually systematically things like well, maybe tomorrow, I will not have 200 grams of that I will have 100 grams.
And definitely the thing.
I always say that is the compound effect, really crazy difference, and is the compound effect of taking action that really craves that fulfillment.
And so if you could really pick an area of your life, number one, number two, what is the little month minimal thing that you can try to incorporate in your life, then roll it out.
That will give you a incredible level of fulfillment and desire, you know, top top top tips, because in the end comes down to making small shifts and changes everything too big is too daunting.
So either we procrastinate or we give up after week because it's not sustainable. And then nothing works.
But if we're tackling the right way, we can change everything. And as I said before we can actually train our brain.
It doesn't happen overnight. But we also didn't get into the stage where we're now overnight. So doing the small changes celebrating along the way saying yes, it's the third week that I'm eating 100 grams, rather than 200 grams, I could probably drop it down to 50 grams.
So, you know, also acknowledging I think it's a big part also to make that sustainable shift.
Petra
Absolutely. Well, this has been literally one of the best conversations ever and the thinking everyone needs to have the skill on design thinking for your life in all aspects of it because we can perform well in one area and try to outperform in one area and other areas suffers because in the end, it will impact all the other aspects also.
Now, Ale - Where can we find you? Where can we find more what you're doing to stay up to date? Follow your what's the best place to go?
Ale:
The best place is to go to our website if people want to go square one.
So it's written Sqr one.
You if you go to the blog page, we've got actually some great videos, I've got some actually great tools that people can actually use right now.
We've got a great design your life crash course in there, and it's all free.
So people will find it very useful. And just on online on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube and LinkedIn. Were on social everywhere.
Petra
Awesome. Well, I'm really looking forward to learning more about that and what you're up to and what's next for you.
Ale:
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much, Petra, for having me such a pleasure talking to you today.
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