What is the … Future of Learning - Interview with Kim Tuohy

Petra:

So looking forward to our conversation today we are joined by our guests that Kim Tuohy, and Kim is a human centred and performance focused instructional designer and an E-learning developer. And she is also founding director of baby steps studio. And today's conversation is all about learning.

How do we learn better, especially for the future of work, and we need to have more information than ever before. But before we get into our conversation, and share all the tips, tricks and tools, I want to get over to Kim and actually introduce herself.

So who are you, Kim? What are you doing and how did you get to where you are now?

Kim:

And I guess I started in corporate land was in human resources, more so specifically, organizational development. And I was very fortunate there in my role to learn so much because I had to figure out what is good training for the employees of the organization that I work at and why I was assessing that training, I learned a lot and develop as a human, then identified what my values were my passion, all that kind of stuff.

And I was like, this side hustle thing that I've always wanted since I was like a 12-year-old girl, I know what that's going to be now I started my business, basically becoming a vendor to the client that I was essentially. And yes, started in eLearning and instructional design business about four years ago. And we're a team of four now. And it is in the space of learning and development, and we are continuously learning ourselves so that we can serve our clients better. And I love it. 

Petra:

Oh, amazing story.

And in terms of learning and the insights that you've gained over the years, where have you seen some changes of the last few years and trends? What How do you define learning?

Kim:

I guess, learning is it needs to be a personal journey. And I think if you think about, you know, there's all this talk about the future of learning, and what's it going to be? And I think, who cares? Honestly, because unless you are going to capitalize on what that is. So for example, if you're going to start a business that is a software tool or a platform in that space, it doesn't matter. And why I say that is because Petra, I think about your audience and who's listening to this. And they just need to focus on what it is that they're trying to do in their lives, right? When I decide I want to do something, it is for myself. I'm going to define success on my terms, I'm going to create my ultimate life. 

So they've got a goal for themselves.

And what I get concerned about is when I hear entrepreneurs or people doing side hustles, or wanting to pursue their passion, is that concerning themselves with things of like, what's the trend? Or what's the future of XXX … it actually immobilizes them to achieve their goal. And it holds them back. And it comes from a place of fear.

And it's something that just holds them back and prevents them from being able to achieve their goal. So when I think about what they should be focusing on from a learning perspective is they've identified what success is for them what they need to achieve for their lives to be satisfied in their own, like definition of what that is. Now what they need to do is figure out what is the link between where I am now and where I need to be to get that. I'm listening to an audiobook at the moment. It's called Extreme Ownership. And it's basically the one thing that resonates about the conversation we're having. And the audience is one quote and I never remember quotes from books, but it is prioritize and execute.

And I think that is the downfall for people. So if you think about you've got your goal, you need to prioritise all the things, the steps, itemise it, what is it going to take to get there, and then prioritise them and focus, put your blinkers on, block out everything around you, and get on that journey. And what that looks like is, when you think about learning, the best way to learn is to do so you can consume yourself with everything out there. And we live in a bloody world of knowledge and accessibility to knowledge and everything is at our fingertips. All you need to do is Google. But when you get so clouded by things like that, it prevents you from executing. And that's the problem, right? 

So the best way to learn is to prioritise what you need to do. You can learn in the moment you can Google. 

I don't know how to write a marketing plan, get on and Google and find out there because the key to learning is having a strong motivation, and that why so connecting to your personal why your personal goal that you're trying to achieve? If you are fearful, or if you are excited or you want something to go really well, you have the motivation to learn and put it into practice. 

So if you think about a hard conversation, you get scared, oh my god, how's it gonna go? I need to prepare, right? So go look at those role plays on YouTube, or the top 10 tips or the top three things to do when you have to have a difficult conversation. Or if you think about an opportunity that you're really excited about a job prospect, a new career and business opportunity, and you're like emotionally connected to it. You're going to learn and prioritize what you need to do for that thing that is immediately in your peripheral that you need to take action on.

So I always think learning needs to come back to the core; the basics of you as a human being and your immediate needs.

Petra:

That’s music to my ears because we're talking a lot about what the future of work is. And you know, nobody has the one answer and I don't think there's a one future we're constantly evolving and developing. And as you just said, learning is a personal journey. There's no one way that's the right way or the wrong way. It's about identifying what is it for myself that I can pick up quickly that I'm interested in. And also this ownership it's more so you know, self-driven, self paced and also save initiated. You can't expect a manager to say enrol in this course, come here, learn this because you know, if you're not ahead of the game, and if you don't take control over it yourself, you don't get anywhere. 

And you also mentioned a really good point too many people are idea rich, but execution poor because they're so clouded. What can we do to get this care? Testing, what do I even want? Because we've got so many options. Now, where do we start? 

Kim:

Well, I think if you have to listen to yourself, right, you can listen to your wife, your husband, your siblings, your parents, colleagues, experts out in the world, and they're all throwing ideas at you. But what you need to do is listen within what is your heart telling you?

And two questions like, what do I want to be known for when I die? What do I want people to say, at my funeral? What do I want my legacy to be like?

It really is looking at how do you want to spend time on earth and having that connection, you it doesn't take that long to do these things. But when you're connected, that helps you go. I could make a lot of money if I took that on that job, or if I pursued that business, but money is not important to me time with my family or adventures and experiences is so what if I took on this job that was less and less financially rewarding, but allowed me to unplug, and just do what I need to do and then do the things that are important to me. So you need to have your own emotional connection to why in the first place, then the clouds disappear. You have clarity. And you know, this is what I used to prioritize. And now I want to execute, because I'm so compelled from within to achieve it.

Petra:

Yes. And I think you know, so many people are also afraid of taking the wrong direction or making the wrong choice. But as I said before, I don't think there's one future and we don't have just one job for the rest of your life anymore. We're going to have more and more different roles, different careers, different responsibilities. It's an ongoing journey as to where we develop and if we can't make a decision now to go in one direction, we're not able to pivot because we realized that section not the right one, right or we're going through different life stages like his was great five years ago. I'm a different person. I've got a different process. Doesn't fit in my life. So doing something different and coming back to your point self-initiated, I'm taking the plunge and do something about it now.

Kim:

Yeah. And that's okay not to be not to think of that as failure. Life is an experiment. We're continuously massaging and chipping away like if I think about the great artists that back in history time and make these beautiful marble things that are so perfect, but it started as a block of marble, and someone chipped away over time and perfected it. And that's what we're doing through the choices, how we spend our time, what we want to be known for what we do in one career, and then we pivot. And we're basically just experimenting, I like this. I want to do a bit more of that. I don't like that, get that off my portfolio. You know what I mean?

Petra:

This is excellent. And coming now back to learning because as I said, there are so many different roles and responsibilities and can be used and we're going to have.

There are some studies from the Institute of the future and also from the economic forum that says it's best that by 2022, we need another 101 days of additional learning to just keep up of things and new knowledge and whatsoever. 

So what would be some of your insights in terms of keeping up to date and gaining new knowledge and not just knowing it, but also being able to implement it because it comes down to actually taking action?

Kim:

Yeah, I think, look, there's the prioritization and the why. And then it's about how do I spend my time? You know, we have time when we're commuting to listen to podcasts, when you're cooking dinner, putting something into your ears and listening. 

So it's about how do you use that time purposefully, that is going to add value to you achieving your goals. I think even my own self like there's so much knowledge out there. YouTube is fantastic. Sometimes they're like an hour interview. And you're hoping by the title that it's going to add value to your life. But there's all clickbait out there. So there's little things you can do like, just put it on double speed, so that you get through it faster. And if it is actually adding value, it you can stop and re-watch, and take notes. 

But there's little hacks in terms of how you spend your time and doing those things. You know, your own self, what resonates with you how you like to work, if you have your own self-awareness, you just need to start doing it. Take notice you need to reflect when you execute on something and it goes well, doesn't go well. You need to decide what am I going to do next time. When you're walking to a meeting and you're preparing for a conversation, roleplaying, how you want it to go out, you're almost practicing it that so that it comes Like that muscle memory that they talk about, when you do that in your mind, you turn off and you show up more confident. 

So if you're going into certain situations where you're coming from a place of fear, it's probably not going to have you in the right frame to do it. 

Visualizing how you want it to go is your practice how you're preparing, especially when you're like just going off the lift into whatever that is, you know, when you think I don't have time now I've lost my time to learn or to practice, you can still do things like that, I believe. And it's always about the reflection. So embedding learning is really effective when you reflect and when you apply. You need to be looking for opportunities in your life to do those things in whatever way works for you.

Petra:

These tips are gold, because, you know, we always say the most important events happen twice, once in your head and once in real life. And this is exactly what you just said, you roleplay with yourself, because the more confident you are in terms of how you could answer this also play different scenarios. 

So when this person says this, how could I respond to it rather than being put on the spot and saying, I don't know, and responding based on fear rather than a policy? I've been there and then I know how to answer this. And everything causes practice. No one is born being perfect in whatever they are you the expert in. So we were talking a little bit about podcasts. I absolutely agree, I do double speed. And I listen to about four hours podcasts a day: In the morning when I brush my teeth, I've got a podcast on straightaway; when we're going shopping, you know, small things like that can add up a lot of content that you can learn over the day. And then you also mentioned taking notes.

Have you got special tips or systems of how you store notes where you store them? What do you do with them to do some reflection work or how do you go about it?

Kim:

I'm a scatterbrain, to be honest, so it's really not the best practice but I do have a tablet. I'm a writer, and they do say that when you Write things you remember them better. So I do write on my tablet, if I type. I'm not fast enough for how quickly my brain is going.

If it's not using my brain, I've got podcast going. But if I hear something, I'm stopping, I'm taking notes, and then not just taking notes, because I may never look at all those thousands of notes that I've taken again. But when I take that note, I've gone well, I've obviously spent energy and seeing that this is important. Before it gets lost into my oblivion of notes. How am I going to apply that? 

Where is that going to have an impact?

Because by having that thought about, I'm going to remember next time I write this proposal. Remember next time, I'm responding to this email. That's it. That's me embedding it in practice. And I think there's lots of things. I guess one of the things that I'm just it's coming to me I awareness now that I do to learn is if I think about my LinkedIn, and my Instagram, places where I do hang out, now I hang out there on a professional basis, right?

We can create it as an opportunity to learn. When we're on there, we're looking to chill out to zone out. It can be meditation, sort of that scrolling action, something piques our interest, we explore it more. If you're smart about who you follow, and the hashtags that you're following. Your feed is full of knowledge and things that you can learn. 

So for example, I am a business owner. So I follow role models on Instagram that are teaching me how to be a better business owner, how to be a leader. It's not my friend. It's not the key anymore. 

Or influences or people in the gym. I'm basically surrounding my environment with learning opportunities. So that when I do want to zone out and chill, it's subconsciously and like, I've infiltrated my own brain for that to be a learning opportunity, even though I'm going, I just want to chill right now. And then I'll see something that is going to give me tips. And then it's that opportunity again. And then so basically, I'm setting up these, what do you call them, like indirect learning opportunities, essentially.

Petra:

That's such a good also, because we've got access to the smartest and brightest people in the world with just using social media in a more purposeful way than just my mindless scrolling through. 

And he also said, you know, it's all comes down to self-driven and self-paced and self-initiated learning and creating your own feed by using hashtags by engaging with content that's relevant to you and then blogging. The rest is again you are taking ownership as to what you consume. And these days, I mean, I love social media for so many reasons. The good news and the bad news is that nowaday everyone's a publisher, so we're getting so much comms information in our feed. Also, that may not be the most trusted resource either.

So it's been very mindful as to what to actually want to get into my world without being too one sided or one, opinionated, but at the same time, also blocking out all the other noise. It's just literally adding more noise. So these are two cool tips. We have a podcast and we have Instagram and LinkedIn to follow hashtags and are leaders in that space rather than influencers and such. Is there another way how we can learn quicker and on the go?

Kim:

I would just say you have access, you need to just go, that's going to add value to my life and put it into action. So stop, it's a distraction to get more and more and more information. And again, it comes back to immobilising us. So this is what I always talk and this is what we do with our clients is: Don't get distracted by shiny newness. You need to get to the core of this. 

So for you, when you see something that resonates, and you know, it's going to add value to your life, put it into action, that's how you will learn. That's how you'll achieve your goals. 

Petra:

That's how you'll build momentum, and it's a continuous cycle. That's my two cents should probably add on this one I see with a lot of my one on one coaching clients, they're usually senior executives and more seasoned professionals. They just need to add another MBA and other masters whatever it may be, and then I get the board role and then I can do this and that it's just an excuse and procrastination, of actually putting things in into action. Because just knowing more doesn't mean that you know how to apply it or to implement is when it comes down to actually taking action. Have you got any tips on how we can actually overcome this fear of Oh my god, what if I'm not good at it? Or if I'm doing it wrong, what can we do to overcome that?

Kim:

Well, I 100% agree with you on the MBA being a destructor from it. Look what everyone in the world or Western society goes through - it’s imposter syndrome. 

Whether you are starting and just out of university out of high school, you get it for your first job, the next time you want to go for an interview, and take them their next career progression, all the way up the ladder. We're always going to fear that and so I think you need to check yourself, right? Why do you want this if you think about the MBA, is it because you want to be at a dinner party and go, I've got an MBA, You know, and it sounds cool and everyone looks at you and they're like wow.

So what is that going to lead you to your goals of earning more money, a better career being on the board? No. You need to think about, like, why you're doing things. I just think there is so many things that hold us back, we'll always have imposter syndrome unless we do the work on ourselves. And then it just minimizes it. It's always going to be there to some extent, but always question your intent behind your action and decision. Is it for others? Or is it for you?

Petra:

Which is such a good look back to where we started where you said, it comes about your values, and what it actually wants to be known for? 

How do you want to be remembered? What's important to you? And no one can answer this question. 

So many people are looking for the answers outside themselves, but in the end, you know, whatever else somebody else says it's wrong because it wouldn't resonate with you. And then there's always this I'm chasing the next weekend begins. Good thing, because it might be the answer. And we'll never get anywhere because it's actually not the right thing. Are we chasing up the mountain, it was actually the wrong move. It was somebody else's dream, it was just chasing as quickly as we could. Okay, and maybe to wrap up this conversation, which have seriously lost so much weight in terms of skill sets, you know, there are again, some studies that say 85% of jobs in 2030 don't even exist yet. So have you got any tips as to what kind of skill sets should we actually focus on to learn invest more time in?

Kim:

Yeah, I think you need to learn to ask the right questions. 

That would be the skill set. So being able to determine is this useful for me or not? So and then that comes from asking the right questions, you know, when that it's comes, you know, do Have you ever heard of system thinking systems thinking? Yeah, it comes down to that, right. 

There's all this stuff going on. All around us. But what is the tip of the iceberg? 

And essentially what we need to do is be able to ask the right questions to cut through to help reveal what it is that we need to be doing, or we need to take action on or make a decision on or that's going to add value to our lives. 

And I think one of the questions I always ask myself is with this too, I guess one is what would love look like this is a bit deep, but what would love look like in this situation, and that's especially when something is having a negative impact on me has not gone the way that I wanted, so that I don't get shut down and immobilized or stopped or, you know, halted from it. And it allows you to open your mind and approach that problem in a different way. 

I'd say that's very impactful for relationships. So relationships with yours, hierarchy, subordinates, everyone around you.

The other thing, the question that I asked myself is, what is my intent? What am I trying to achieve? If you get good at asking the right questions, the answers are made available to you. And then you just need to take action.

Petra:

I couldn't have been any better summary because again, full circle back to taking control over it. Being self-initiated, learning, knowing what excites you, and seeing what is actually in line with getting to your goal quicker and more effective rather than just wasting time on something that may be a trend at the moment because trends come and go. But your motivation, your various, you know, space, or you know, develops obviously, but you want to start there. Oh, amazing, Kim, we could probably talk for another two days. But where could everyone find it to learn more about what you do and how you could help anyone?

Kim:

You can Google Kim Tuohy. Find me on LinkedIn if you want to reach out?

Petra:

Definitely. Yeah, I live on LinkedIn. So I'm looking forward to more conversations are what they are also and for anyone to join and to give something big and how they learn the best way. So thank you again and talk to you soon. Thank you so much.

Connect with Kim Tuohy on LinkedIn or Instagram