What you need to know about making Social Media work for you - Interview with Dr Karen Sutherland
If there's one thing Corona has shown us is that online doesn't go anywhere. And obviously, social media plays a big role in how we can create our own online footprint.
However, it's quite hard to stay on top of the trends and the changes that are happening all the time, it can be overwhelming. And this is why I'm super excited to be joined for somebody who lives and breathes social media.
We are joined today by Dr. Karen Sutherland, who is a social media educator, and author, speaker and researcher and a coach with over 20 years experience.
She's teaching at the University of the Sunshine Coast and leads to social media education, and also researches social media.
So I'm really looking forward to dig deeper into what are the trends that we're seeing what has changed? How can we create a profile that stands out? And also how can we use it to our advantage to connect with people and build out network?
Now, with no further ado, I would love to introduce and welcome our guest, Dr. Karen Sutherland, thanks so much for being here.
Petra:
So how did you get into social media?
How did you Why did you dedicate your professional life to social media?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Well, it's sort of, it's sort of found me and I mean, my early sort of tinkering with social media, but it would be like in a, maybe the early 2000s, where I think it was a site called schoolfriends.com. And then I started to play with my space and things like that.
And I started using Facebook in about 2007. And so it was all sort of just like my own personal use of it until I was working at as a lecturer at Monash University. And then I was asked to run a course called online public relations. That's when I really started to teach about social media, and how to use it in a PR context. And I was at the time trying to work out the the topic of my PhD.
And I tried, I had like seven topics in that first year trying to work it out. And then my supervisor said, well, you seem to really enjoy social media. So why don't you look at something like that. And so I did. So I ended up focusing my PhD on how not for profit company to use social media to connect with their donors and volunteers. And so after that, then I just, I guess, dive right into it and really loved what it could do. And also understood like, you know, the darker side of it as well.
So it's not all rainbows and butterflies. And so I I started to teach it more, then I was offered a job at University of the Sunshine Coast. And there was one course when I started and and then now we have a whole degree, and majors and minors stream so that I've been able to create and develop that since I joined up here in 2015. So it's just sort of happened to me, but I'd love every second of it.
Petra:
Well, that's great to hear. And also congratulations on your recent win for the social media educator of 2020. But it's something we do Marketing Institute, how did you get this?
So how do you create those curriculums and courses that are yet that they are up to date, because everything is changing, but also that you stand out from all the other educational platforms?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Well, I think look, I I'm a big believer on, I think theory is important, but it doesn't have a lot of meaning unless it's practically applied.
So in 80% of the courses that we have at USC students are working directly with real clients. And they're producing strategies.
In some courses, they actually live on their channels, they're developing strategy, implementing it running all the analytics. So it's really important to me that to teach them guess the theory, the fundamental sort of communication skills, marketing, PR and advertising that really you need when you're you're going to interact on social media, from like a business organizational perspective, but then actually giving students the opportunity to gain real world experience by actually implementing those those things and concepts that we teach to them. So I think that I think that had a big part to play.
And the fact that I love getting out and about in the community to teach social media as well. So not just at USC, I run on pro bono nonprofit workshops every month out in the community, sometimes, normally, like I do, I put out a call at the beginning of the year and say, one of one organization a month, and it started off just on the Sunshine Coast.
And this year, I've delivered them via zoom in Prague and inferred anti organizations, and there'll be some in America so it's, um, you know, it's actually really increasing the global spread of doing these workshops. And I do run workshops for say tourism Noosa. So other sort of organizations locally as well. So I'm actually preparing on Monday.
I'm part of a project led by Dr. Sarah Casey from us See, we were called the real rural digital solutions project. And we're going out to regional Queensland to a place called St. George, where which has been really drought affected. And so we're out there teaching business owners out there more about social media. So it's like a seven and a half hour drive from where I am.
So I think that, you know, I think that's really helped, I think in gaining that award is not just focusing, you know, it's great, and focusing on higher education, but also getting the word out and helping people from everywhere and doing lots of different things.
Petra:
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, this is the beauty of social media that the world has become so connected, which is great. Maybe that would also be a good segue in. So what have you seen in terms of the trends and changes over the last probably nine months since everyone had to go online?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Yeah, look, I think people are buying online a lot more.
And Facebook are now rolling out that functionality more and more.
So I think that that's going to be, you know, a really big theme of the next year, and just being able to purchase within social media platforms.
So I think that sort of the shopping side of it, and also the the necessity of community and, you know, Facebook groups, and just people connecting online around similar interests and helping each other. I know, Facebook actually did some research about how well their groups function during COVID. And people said, they felt such a sense of connectedness being part of a group of people in their local area, or just people in their professional field.
And I know, locally, a lot of the actual support came from fellow business owners helping each other in these groups and giving advice on what they can do to sort of navigate the changes that will cause through COVID-19. So yeah, I think they're the most important things. And I guess to online events, I think they everyone had to flip to an online event. And I can see these becoming much more sophisticated as we go on and being and just an extra option. So while we can maybe go back to face to face events, I think I think most events will have some sort of online component where people from around the world can also join.
Petra:
Yes, definitely, we were actually talking just this week, because it also hosted an online event. And we've been running that every month. But I also see that people are getting a little bit tired. And we're talking about the trends that people expect next year, probably so much more from online events that they may even be like hybrid, or that we've got different platforms where we can be more interactive, because sitting in front of a computer all day for work, and then you're socializing, why assume people are getting a little bit what can you do? Have you had any insights? Or can you see any trends in terms of the online event space? Or also how it delivers? Say, the classes and lectures?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Yeah, I mean, look at some of the best events I've seen is where, and it's almost like transcended that offline and online where people could actually order food, and then have it brought in to their, you know, as they get a some sort of package from the event before the event.
So everyone has the same sort of stuff with them. And even having activities during an event where I've seen amazing scavenger hunts, and just to get people up and about and then coming back and to, to share what they're doing. So I think yeah, I think sort of bridging that online offline within the space of the event. I think that's helped a real lot.
Petra:
Absolutely. And, you know, the good thing is that we can be more connected. But with that what we have also seen over the last few months is that more people have gone online, especially LinkedIn has seen such a massive increase, because obviously people look for jobs.
But at the same time, it's also the way how to stay up to date.
And that means that organic reach has gone down a lot. Maybe you've seen that also. Yes. Okay. Thank you for the other one. And even with LinkedIn, you know, it was such an amazing organic reach. And with the new interface in September, my engagement has completely plummeted. However, those polls and interactivity, posts, they're still performing well. Now, what would it take for us when we start to start now, to get more active to create a profile that actually makes us stand out, and we're not one of many to get lost in the flood.
Dr Karen Sutherland:
I think one of the most important things I think, is your profile photo, because I know I don't know about you, but if someone sends me requests, and I don't have a photo, I'm not responding. And you know, I want to say who this person is and and then thinking about that photo as well. So you can be professional, but you can still show your personality.
And so I think I just can go with my personal experience where I just took a good selfie with my phone. And it was very sort of straight rain glasses sort of thing.
And it wasn't until last year, I invested in getting some professional photos taken. And it was one went up with me laughing.
I've got so many I've got so many opportunities, and it was the only thing I changed really was that photo.
And I think he can need to show that you're personable and approachable as well as being professional. So I think the photo is really important. Also, the way that you sum yourself up in in the first sort of title line as well. I've heard some research where if you use the verb helping, so in that same helping and who are you helping, so it's all about showing what solution you're providing to, to the your target audience, because there'll be people that you are actually really trying to reach more than others, you know, then that's just life really. And, and the other thing is your description, like really make the most of that area, that's prime real estate, because if someone actually does want to learn more about you, you can tell your story there. And there's some really great examples of how to do that by first explaining what you do.
And again, the problems use, you can show your expertise, even now, talking about sort of the what might be the barriers to people wanting to connect with you or use your product or service and, and providing, you know, reasons why that isn't a barrier. So, you know, I think making the most of that section is really important.
Petra:
That's such a great recommendation. And especially with the profile photo, because a picture sense, obviously more than thousand words, and people have already perception about you based on what they see. And this comes down to being aware of what is your brand positioning, how do you want to be perceived.
And I think, you know, traditional education doesn't necessarily teach it. But given the future of work is more fluid and more frequent that we're changing. And also, we're building a performing career rather than having one employer for the rest of our lives. We need to be connecting with more people and much quicker and also be able to sell ourselves. So thanks so much for those great tips.
And talking about connection and networking. What is the right way to do it? How can we use social media to actually build a network rather than just adding more connections for the sake of it.
Dr Karen Sutherland:
I think it's about providing value. And the people who I see do it really well. And those who share they know who would be most interested in certain information.
So they will share news and updates, research findings, things like that, that would be of interest to particular people. And there's that and I connect people. So if they know someone is looking for someone else with a particular skill set, and I know that person, they you know, they actually act as the conduit to actually bring them together. So it's all about how the value you provide. So I read a great quote, I can't remember who said it, but I quoted often. And it's, it's a bad thing. They said, you're not a member of a community, you're a participant. And so being a participant means you contribute. So it's all about what you can give. And by giving in that way, people will want to connect with you and build that relationship.
Petra:
That's a great point that you actually show rather than tell them what you can do, because somebody say I'm a great communicator, great. Everyone says they're great that you know, designer also. But if you can show it, and by literally participating and also shaping how we use social media, how we share content, how we have conversations, this is a proactive approach. And I think we see also a bit of a shift in skill sets. Because you also mentioned before, you need to be able to position yourself that you can actually address concerns that your potential audience has, and sell yourself what value you can bring.
Do you see also any kind of skill set shifts or change requirements to stay on top of top of the game and also future proofing ourselves? In terms of social media?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Well, look, I mean, I did a study a couple of probably a year ago with 400 Australian employers, but looking at the skills they thought were most attractive from university graduates.
And I broke them into four categories. And the top category they said that they wanted was, they wanted public relations and customer service skills.
So in terms of social media skills, so they want people you can interact with in an online space who are personable, and you know, and who provide value and have that focus on relationship building.
So I think that's the most important thing. And then I think the next one was being able to produce content, and was really important. And so thinking about that, it's all about your audience. And And again, it's all about providing value with what you're doing.
So rather than you know, it's sometimes it's fine to share your, you know, your successes, but you also want to share knowledge that's going to help people so focusing more on how you can help people with what you're posting online will really stand you in good stead.
And I think, you know, for especially business owners and entrepreneurs, it's fairly normal or ready to share that. But so many corporate professionals, they don't see themselves as La as somebody who needs to sell themselves.
But at the same time, if you hire somebody, you also sell yourself for your skills, or you want to be bought for your skills. Have you got any recommendations how we can get better with content creation? Also, when it's not necessarily our area of expertise? Maybe we're a software engineer or, and, you know, yeah. Any other professional marketing look, and the thing is, it's, it's about, it's all about storytelling, right?
So you don't have to be a graphic designer or a video producer.
These days, like the, the great tools like Canva, which anyone can use, and it's so easy, and then even just doing like, one minute videos with your iPhone, and you can upload that you could share a tip that you know of it, what I find funny, and I do this sometimes, when I'm sure you do, you forget what you actually know, you think sometimes everyone knows what you know, but everyone's an expert in some particular area. And people will actually be grateful for you to share your advice on that.
So even if you did a little video to sharing, you know, a piece of advice, telling a short story about something about your career, something that's helped you, you can use that as content. And I think people now want more genuine pieces of content rather than the really polished stuff.
So you don't, you don't have to be an expert content creator, all you have to do is be able to, I guess, be comfortable enough to share your knowledge and share stories about you know, your rear and what's helped you totally agree.
And I think also what we see right with application, so many application processes require you to submit a video, a short video introduction and why you're the suitable candidate for the role.
Petra:
I think, you know, this is a shift in a skill set everyone, no matter their profession needs to be we need to get better at and as you said, we've got smartphones already, it's not hard to press a button and record something. But not many have actually done it or be curious enough to test and try.
In terms of social media, for 2020 and beyond, where do you see trends are going to or what kind of platforms will focus on what is going to come what's going to go Have you got any kind of insights you could share?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
I really think that it's it's really dependent on who you're trying to connect with. So you need to be where your target audience is. So if they're, you know, if you're going after people who are a bit older than you'll be on Facebook, if you're going after younger people, you might use Instagram or even tik tok, because that that's increasing, you know, dramatically in terms of adoption rates. So even with all the sort of negative press that came out earlier in the year, people are still jumping on there a lot. So it's really first focusing on, you know, what your goals are, and who you try to speak to, and that will determine, like, where we're going to go. And, and so I think, that the platforms will keep trying to keep you on the platform.
So they'll keep adding functionality that will keep you there, like the shopping, like, you'll notice when COVID went down, everyone's using zoom, and Facebook brought out rooms on messenger, you know, so that you could have a zoom like experience.
So it'll just keep adding things just to keep you there. So that's really my prediction. I can't be too specific, because we don't know what's coming and what we're going to use. But yeah, but I think anything that will keep you on the platform longer. That's what that's what they're gonna do.
Petra:
That is such a good Segway into the next question, because so many people don't really want to get onto social media, because everything changes so quickly.
And in a second you figure something out the works. The next way, it doesn't work anymore because of an update. What are some ways? I mean, obviously, you've got your finger on the pulse with doing extra research on it. But what are some ways that we can stay up to date with trends and not getting crushed by a wave, but actually can ride a wave?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Well, look, I think if you're really interested in keeping up with the trends like you could them, checking regularly with them or even follow like actually the Facebook page, and there's a Facebook newsroom on their website where they do announcements about updates all the time and all the platforms have these sort of news areas where you can you can have a look.
His other websites like Social Media Examiner, which is really great. And gem social media today is actually a new site where they announce a lot of stuff as well and find their stuff Great social media experts that you could follow. Like, there's Mary Smith is Neil Patel, Dennis you.
And these are people who clearly have a direct line of communication with the platform's because they're always the first ones to come out and say this is happening. So and yeah, so it's just I guess, if you're really interested in keeping up, then it's just following with new sources that will keep you up to date.
Petra:
For sure. And if we can talk also a little bit more about the personal interactions, obviously, certainly, there's a tool but doesn't take away the personality aspect of it. What some good ways other than sharing content, that we create some inbound opportunities for people to get to know us and see what we're all about, what are some ways for us to be proactive and connect with decision makers start a conversation without being blocked straightaway or not getting responded to?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Yeah, so I mean, if we're talking particularly about LinkedIn, and the best thing to do is not just send a request without any any message with it, because they'll be like, we even need this person. So when what I talked about, what about LinkedIn request, it's all about providing some sort of context, to show that there is some connection there.
So for example, if it's a decision maker, and followed, you can follow the people on LinkedIn without having a connection request.
But if you wanted to take it further, but follow them first, and start interacting with their content, and if there was a really great piece of content that you liked, then you could message them and say, you know, why you like that piece of content and just add some sort of context to it, you made them want to find an article that you once you get to know them by following them.
And that would suit their interests, and then send a link to that article with the connection request to say, and I saw this, I thought that might be of interest to you, I've been, you know, reading your your posts and feel free, if you'd like to connect with me, you know, just to add some, you could add value for them, and provide some sort of context. And I think that that will be much more effective, because it shows initiative, and it shows that you've taken an interest in what they're about without being stalkerish. And, you know, rather than just sending like the cold, nothing, connection request.
Petra:
Another great tip, when it comes down to the law of reciprocity, I can't expect to get something if I don't give in the first place or willing to give without necessarily expecting something to get something back either. And you know, people smell the honesty and the authenticity from a mile away if you are there for the right reasons or not.
Now, we briefly touched on the negative sides on the social media, and obviously, social media dilemma, the movie was very insightful as to what's actually going on with algorithms. Can you share some insights into what's actually going on? What kind of impact has social media had also in the not so positive ways?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Well, look, I think it's a number of different impacts. And we could, we could talk about it for hours. But I think the weather algorithms seem to work and you know, God, I don't have the formula. But what seems to work is that you keep seeing more of what you interact with.
So I think that can sort of close you off a bit to hearing other perspectives and learning more, you know, because you just you keep saying the same sorts of things that you like. And it's also meant that misinformation can just spread like wildfire.
And I think we have a long way to go in terms of say social media literacy, in terms of information to help people to determine what is real and what is not what is truthful, what is not, and, and how to record it and how to stop the spread.
And, and we've seen that with around election time, we saw it with COVID, like, the amount of misinformation that was being spread was was, you know, and it was out of fear, because people didn't know what was going on.
So they'd see something and just share it, they wouldn't check if it was true or not. And I think that's probably the worst part because people are seeing what's on social media, and then just believing it straightaway. And rather than sitting down and checking whether it's accurate, accurate or not. And I think that's probably had the greatest impact.
And then the it can be very addictive. You know, we I'm constantly checking our phones and, and sometimes we're not really being mindful about how we're using it. We're not using it with purpose, we're just sitting there because we're bored.
And we're using it as a distraction and just sort of, you know, flicking through and scrolling rather than thinking, Okay, what am I actually on here, or you know, and so I think and be more mindful about it important. And I think we need to teach kids from an early age about these things.
And we need to teach all users about these things because even like the older users are still on into similar traps, because it's just unfamiliar to them. And then they're unaware. So it's just, I guess, educating everyone about how to get the best out of it. Because it's a it's a fantastic tool. It's a fantastic technology, but it just needs a bit of sort of guidance to to actually use it in a really positive way.
It just has taken over so quickly. And this is why people haven't necessarily upskill properly yet, but it will become a necessity, I think, because it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Anyway.
Petra:
What is next for you? What's the plan for you for 2021? What's your focus on the research side of things also?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Well, I mean, we were doing more research into saying women and digital in particularly in regional areas, and I've got actually a book coming out, it should be in either next month or in January. And so that's called strategic social media management, theory and practice.
So I actually have the proof, I've got the proofs yesterday. So that's my weekend gone, just got to go. So that should be out in the next couple of months.
My interest really lies in I've really wanted to learn how students can be job ready when they get into the workplace and add a lot of value with their social media skills.
So I like to focus at the moment I'm doing. It's actually a live streaming show. But I'm actually doing interviews with graduates, who studied social media at USC to find out what were their careers have taken them since graduating, and what they didn't get at university that they needed, and what they found really helpful, and also new things that they're encountering in terms of social media.
So that's probably my big focus, as well, in terms of social media research.
Petra:
That's exciting. And I like the aspect that you're actually involving your students, because they under forefront, they are literally living and breathing that everyday with their interaction. So the more education can also become entertaining and more relevant to what's going on in their current life, the more you will actually want to learn. Because I think this is also one of the biggest issues with the traditional education system. It's very theoretical, it's we're teaching content that was relevant 2,3, 4 or 10 years ago, and so much has changed even just in the last six months.
So it's, you know, not surprising that some students just lose interest and say, why am I even here?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Yeah, that's right. It's in you've got to be relevant and maintaining something like social media, sometimes I'm, I'm updating things like minutes before I'm actually delivering them. And I mean, look, a lot of the core sort of theories won't change, but the application will, you know, and, and with all the different changes to the platform's like it's how you demonstrate how they work in these ever changing environment. That's so important, because you're right, if we don't do that, students are going to lose interest.
Petra:
What is your personal social media channel and have you got maybe also favorite tool that you cannot live with us?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
I'm what my favorite, so it would have to be Canva and can't look Canva I like wave video. But I also love the Adobe products as well.
I use Adobe Spark and Photoshop and jam and Lightroom. So and then as a photo imaging tool, as well, like on an app on my phone on live Snapseed and two, so there's, there's quite a few that I really love 10s of platforms, I do like most of them, and I'm on most of them. And they all have different audiences.
And I think what I'm spending a lot of time at the moment on Tick Tock because I love just watching how that's evolving. And it's not just a dance sort of lip synching app, as well, people are shooting creating some really young, right instructional videos on it, and particularly in the areas of digital marketing. And they're also just normal, everyday people sharing their stories and I love I love hearing about people's lives and you get a lot of that on tik tok.
And what I find most interesting is that on say, other platforms, you know, say Instagram, it's really them, you know, very attractive people who have the largest following like influences into be people who you know, who's fit a certain mold, if you know what I mean. But on Tick tock, you can have the most every day, not ordinary, but just like everyday people and have a massive following on there and just being themselves and that's what I love. It's some it's a really great platform in that respect. They all they all have their benefits and their downfalls. And, yeah, and I love just going in and seeing and playing with the differences with age.
Petra:
I think especially in as a business owner, or even as a marketer, we need to be more mindful as to what resonates with people because that also impacts advertising, like professional advertisement. If we don't have a long attention span and take 10 seconds or within the first seconds we decide is this for us and do we want to watch it further, then we need to change also the message. And I think we'll see a massive shift also in the skills that we require.
And as I said, already being critical or critical thinking in general, not just taking the information as it comes, but actually asking, is it coming from a trusted resource? Why did he say that? How does it apply to me just taking the extra step.
And I think also from the last few years, what has changed is, everything is, um, you know, a click away or swipe away. So people are not necessarily willing to work a little bit longer put the extra steps in there. But I think we need to go back to those basics and be more creative with everything that's going on. And then look how you can apply. And so where we are.
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Yeah, I totally agree with you. Because I mean, yeah, that's right is and I think that's what the platform's want, they just want us to just go with it, because it's quick, you know, but we need to have that pause and take that step back and think critically, around around what we're actually consuming.
Petra:
Exactly. Well, I think it's so much there was so many golden nuggets. So really appreciate your time. Where can everyone find you and connect with you and follow you what you're up to?
Dr Karen Sutherland:
Well, I'm well, you can you can Google, you can google me? I'm pretty easy to find I websites. Dr. Karen Sutherland calm. And I'm the same on Dr. Karen Sutherland on LinkedIn and Facebook. And yeah, you'll find me.
Petra:
That's also you know, a big testament to it. It's consistent. It's pretty consistent. So you're not giving you know, big guesswork out there say it is her is it not fair. I think this comes down to online reputation management. This is, I think, a key skill everyone needs to master because everyone's going online. So I cannot wait to follow up more of your research of your journey of your findings. And again, thank you so much for being here today.