How To Stand Out In A Crowded Market Place (Interview with Kyle Elliott)
Petra:
Kyle, welcome to the future of work campus. I'm so excited that you're here.
Kyle:
Yes, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be speaking with you and to your listeners today.
Petra:
Excellent. Now I've got a confession to make. I'm a big fan girl here. I've been following you for a while. I think you're amazing. You've got an incredible specialisation and incredible approach.
And of course, an incredible brand. You're also known as the caffeinated Kyle. And for me, as a person, brand strategist. I'm all about how you can make yourself stand out and be different and memorable.
But for those who may have lived under a rock and haven't come across you, who are you? What are you doing? And how did you get to where you are now?
Kyle:
Yes, so in a nutshell, I help people find jobs they love. And typically those people are in high tech and Silicon Valley, or in Silicon Valley-esque places.
So those really hyper competitive industries where there's 250,000 5000 people applying for the same role. There's a ton of competition, and people need help standing out.
So I come in, and really what sets me apart is I help people rethink, recreate, reimagine their career story, recreate their career, so then they can go in and land those dream jobs, Facebook, Google, Amazon, you name it, I didn't, I didn't always do this actually started by accident on Fiverr.
I literally charged $5 for resume reviews, LinkedIn profile summaries, and then over time, I just kept raising my prices as I got more clients, as I developed this niche, and Silicon Valley and high tech. And then, three and a half years ago, I made the leap to doing this full time.
And I love every minute of it, I get to help people land amazing jobs, at some of the biggest companies in the world. And it's just so exciting that I get to wake up every day and do work I love.
Petra:
And you can sense it in every piece of content that you put out there that you live and breathe your professional, it's clearly more than just a job. It's your calling, probably I would say.
Kyle:
Yeah, and it's so funny, I'm actually going through this certification program. Right now, it's a couple of strong interest inventory. So it helps connect people between their interest in occupations. And when you take it you don't tell them what you currently do. And then they spit out a list of 130 different careers and rank what you should be doing. And it put me as the number one career counsellor.
I'm literally doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And it's so amazing and get that validation that oh my gosh, I really am in the right career. And I happen by accident.
I'm so, so excited that that college side hustle turns into this amazing business and work that I love.
Petra:
Absolutely. And this is also what we're going to talk a little bit further for people who want to reinvent themselves. But before we get into this, I want to know from your side, from your experience, what you've seen, 2020 has clearly been a big year with lots of changes. What changes in a nutshell, in your field?
Kyle:
There's a lot of change and Silicon Valley and high tech, we're ahead of the times when it came to remote work. And I think the rest of the world, including these big tech companies are catching up to remote work a lot more companies are becoming remote friendly, or remote first.
And this is a huge benefit for these companies, because they're able to recruit beyond just their geographic location.
And then for employees, they have a lot more options when it comes to where they want to work. On the flip side, though, if you're looking for a job, if you're a leader or looking to make the next jump in your career or software engineering, okay, well, maybe you want to lead a engineering team, what happens is there's more competition.
So instead of just competing with other people in your vicinity, you're competing with people all over the nation, if not all over the world. So yes, there is more opportunities, but there's also more competition and people you have to compete with.
There's this kind of that double edged sword. And then we throw in a global pandemic, where there's less jobs and even more people unemployed. The job market is just never been as saturated and as competitive as it was in 2020. And now it is in 2020 100%.
Petra:
Agree and it doesn't go anywhere either. So especially looking now into 2021. and beyond. So many companies also in Australia have in integrated and it worked from home policy, at least until the middle of the year, if not ongoing.
And as he also said the biggest benefit is that we can build global teams now we don't have to work with local talents. And especially here in Brisbane, which is a fairly small state, you don't have as many especially tech talents.
So the question is, how can we stand out in this crowded world? What do we need to take in consideration and where what other changes do you see that we need to know about?
Kyle:
Yeah, so I think the biggest change is going to continue to see companies go remote.
So I think there's this idea that after the pandemic has ended, people are going to be coming back into the workplace and we're just not seeing that I have a lot of clients that are at Facebook and other companies where their employer so told them hey, even after this pandemic, you're going to be permanently remote.
Other companies have started selling off their Real Estate are breaking their leases.
So we're gonna see a lot more people being remote. And I'm seeing a lot of people move.
I was just talking to another colleague about this move to other less expensive location. So I'm in California, super expensive in the United States, we have people moving to Texas, we have people moving outside of the US, I have clients moving to other countries that are less expensive. So I think there's going to be a lot of shifting in regard to where people live as a result of being able to work remotely, and then there's just going to be more competition.
So job seekers are gonna have to figure out how to stand out. And the key there is to really, I asked my clients, what makes you fabulous.
And building upon that, when there is, let's say, 1000 other people applying for the same roles. You I drill down on my clients out of those 1000?
What makes you more fabulous, or different than other 1000 people applying for this role? And my clients start sweating?
And they're like, Oh, my gosh, I don't know how to answer this. And it's okay not to know immediately, but you want to start noodling on that and brainstorming and finding an answer, because that's going to help you then add accomplishments on your resume and your cover letter on LinkedIn that backup, what makes you fabulous, go into the interview and highlight that, and be able to sell yourself on land or roll at least competitive companies.
Petra
I love your approach, because it's all about standing out for the right reasons for you owning your fabulousness and your uniqueness rather than just trying to be loud. And I also know that you are also an introvert.
So it's not about being the loudest and the you know, take me kind of person, but it's being confident in why you and being able to communicate it in a way that resonates with people. I love your approach from that aspect. Talking about communication.
So clearly, we are all going online.
· How important is the digital presence?
· Do you think for tenants these days?
Kyle:
Yeah, I was reading a statistic, I think it's 98%, at least of Fortune 500. companies are using LinkedIn to recruit talent, these companies are looking at LinkedIn before they often even look at your resume.
It's so critical that you have the online profile updated. And LinkedIn, from every recruiter I've talked to is not replacing your resume, but it's complementing your resume.
So people see your LinkedIn and say, okay, you're qualified to apply, then you have to have your resume to say, Okay, now am I qualified to be interviewed.
So you want to have your LinkedIn updated. And then you want a resume that complements that, but it's key that you're online, but you're putting yourself out there and networking.
And then the other thing I really love about LinkedIn, or any other social media platform you're on, is that it's a great way to network with people at your target roles.
If you want to go work at Facebook, or Amazon or any other company, you can reach out to people who are there and say, Hey, I see you work at Amazon, do you have 20 minutes to share what it's like working there, I would love to learn best practices.
And if things go well, they can then introduce you to their boss, who was likely the hiring manager.
Petra:
That's such a great tip, because often those informal interviews actually get you so much more insights, not just information from a company page that, you know, every CEO says we're the best company to work for.
But from somebody who lives and breathes the company or organization that the values, they can give you a lot more detailed information. And we said inside if it's the right thing for you.
But coming back to your approach, it starts with you knowing exactly what makes you unique, what drives you, what motivates you, what are your values, what can you bring to the table? And then does it match with the company and the organization? Or is it a mismatch?
Petra:
Exactly. And having those informational interviews can be a great way to figure out if there's alignment or not. If, for example, you're really big on autonomy, you're really big on being able to drive things forward, and then you talk and they say, Oh, yeah, there's a lot of bureaucracy at this company.
And they're micromanaging you all the time. This is a red flag, this is not the company for me. So those informational interviews can also save you a lot of time so you're not wasting time- interviewing places, and landing a job at a company that maybe is not a fit for you.
Kyle:
So I love having my clients as their homework reaching out to some people who are at their target companies, before they start job searching to see okay, is this really the right companies that I'm targeting?
Or am I just targeting it because it has the name Amazon or Microsoft or Google or Salesforce?
Petra:
Exactly. And this brings us back to the point that we started initially in our conversation, that you help people to find a job that they love. And you're obviously in a profession that you flourish in.
And that really aligns with your values. But for those who haven't quite found this career, or realized through and after COVID, that they've actually chosen the wrong career path. What kind of advice would you give them? Where do we start to reinvent our careers?
Kyle:
Yeah, so you and I are both on the Forbes coaches Council and I network with a lot of coaches on the council and another coach and executive coach actually gave me this activity that I now use with my clients and it's to ask a few people who know you this can be a family member, it can be a friend, it can be a colleague, and ask them, Hey, if I wasn't in, for example, career coaching, I'll use myself if I wasn't a career coach, what can you see me doing for a living, and send that to a few people.
And this is one of my favourite activities, I do it with all of my clients who are considering a career transition. And they get amazing insight. They're like, I could see you being a project manager, I could see you planning events, or I could see a managing social media. And then my clients bring that back to me.
And their next homework is to then network with people in those jobs and reach out and say, Hey, can you tell me what it's like being a social media manager?
Can you tell me what it's like to plan events, and I find that those two together one getting insights from people close to you, and then to networking with people who are in that role to actually learn what it's like. It's such a powerful combination to navigate career uncertainty and start getting ideas about what makes sense for you next.
Petra:
I love this approach. Because it also opens up your perspectives. And often when, especially when we are in our professional industry for so long. We've got the blinkers on, we don't see what else we could do. And this probably also leads us into the next question. I'm a big fan of building a portfolio career and having multiple engagements, especially when you want to pivot, because as you said, it takes the risk out of maybe choosing their quote unquote, wrong path, you can tap into it, see what works, what doesn't work resonates with you.
Now, what is your approach and thought of building a portfolio career, especially in this gig economy? Do you see this? Is a trend moving forward? Or is it a fad that goes away?
Kyle:
Yeah, so a lot of the managers I are the clients, I work with our managers, executives, and they don't just have a linear path. They don't just go from one company to another.
But they've done consulting, or they've taken sabbaticals, or they've served on boards. And we're seeing more and more of this. And I think there's often this idea, if I want to get experience in product management, for example, I have to go be a product manager. But there's other opportunities to gain that experience.
You can do product management consulting, you can go to the product school, you can serve on a board and provide consulting to them.
So when you're trying to really broaden your skill set, recognize that you don't just have to do it in full time work. But there's opportunities beyond that. And then your role as a job seeker is to market that on your resume. And sometimes that doesn't mean just putting roll after roll on your resume. But being creative in regards to how you market yourself, because there aren't any resume roles. You're the one that gets to say, here's how I present myself to recruiters and hiring managers.
Petra:
That's a great Segway into the next question, because I know you're a professional resume writer. How do we tell the story, especially if we don't have this linear path? And we kind of don't make sense?
How can we connect the dots in a way that people say, Oh, I want to interview this person?
Kyle:
Yeah, so my biggest tip is to print out the job posting and work backwards and use that language. So even though I've written over 1000 resumes, now, I still use the job posting to guide me when I write client's resumes.
So I know at this point, there's items beyond the job posting that I'm going to have to include, but the job posting is always that starting point, I say, okay, they're looking for someone who's led global teams, okay, I need to put that on their resume. They're looking for someone who's managed a multi-billion dollar p&l, let me put that on the resume.
And first, I just go from a job posting and put that on their resume. And then the second piece is you say, okay, for everything they want, let me then add an accomplishment.
So if you're feeling stuck, use that job posting to one just pull language onto your resume. And then two, for each item they're looking for add an accomplishment, just those two steps can quickly help you build out a resume that's in alignment with what they're looking for. A lot of people make the mistake of writing their resume, then trying to massage for the job posting.
And it's quicker. I know, people aren't gonna like me saying this, but it's quicker to just ditch your old resume and start over and work backwards from the job posting, you're gonna save yourself a lot of time and get a ton more interviews, because they're looking for ABC and your resume is going to match it on say, ABC using their language, when it comes back to making it easy for people to see exactly why you are the right person.
But what you just said, being empathetic and matching up the same language, you see already similarities and say, oh, I've looked exactly for that.
Petra:
So that's a great tip already. So that's a great approach from a layout.
Are there any tips because you said there are no resume roles? rules? Can we stick to some tips? Maybe that highlights our resume?
Kyle:
Yeah, so it varies a lot from countries but I mostly write resumes for the US, Europe or similar type countries.
And when I write these, typically my clients again, our senior managers, executives, there's this idea that your resume has to be a single page. That's a math. If it's two pages, three pages, that's usually what I aim for, for clients, two pages, sometimes three pages, people will read it if it's good. I think of the Harry Potter books, there are six 700 pages. People keep reading because they're good.
So don't worry as much about like worry about content as every single item on here saying, here's what sets me apart and makes me more fabulous than other people. So that's the first step. And then the second piece is to say:
“How can I add my own personality and my own fabulousness to this document?”
“Is it throwing a splash of colour?”
“Is that adding a testimonial?”
“Is it adding something different and unique about yourself that other people haven't included?”
And then lastly, think:
“Okay, why should the CEO care about this and go through every single line and ask that they're not going to care that you manage your project?”
They're gonna care. Okay, did it save costs? Did it increase business revenue? Did it make customers happy? You know what those three items, your resume will just go to another level?
Petra:
Great tips. And this is also what comes down to the transferable skills. Because if you have achieved those results in one organization, or in one role already, you would be highly likely able to achieve that again. And this is exactly what a company is looking for a hiring manager. What does your background benefits to what I'm looking for? And how can you bring your fabulousness to us?
Kyle:
Exactly. And there's optimist focus, people say, Kyle and done this exact thing they're looking for.
But the thing is, companies aren't that focused on your day to day and what you're dealing with, they're more focused on the results. And as long as you're getting those results, a lot of leaders really don't care how you're getting them as long as it's legal and ethical. They care more about are you getting those results. And that's what most of your resume should be the results from my accomplishments less. Here's what I was doing day to day.
Petra:
Yes, great tips. I love them really a lot. Now, maybe to finish up? What are your thoughts on online presence? You said, obviously, we need a LinkedIn profile. But especially mid to senior professionals are often worried about when you're posting something that the company may give them negative feedback or to get external negative feedback, or they could get a backlash.
What are your thoughts on putting yourself out there? How important is it or not to progress in your career?
Kyle:
So a lot of leaders think they have to create something new and different and go out of their way. And it's going to be super time consuming. I like using the Gary Vee or Gary Vaynerchuk model of document don't create, say, Okay, what am I doing that I can already share? Are we hosting something at work where I can simply share this with my network? Or is there some sort of article that we've already written that I can reproduce?
So instead of thinking outside the box, I want you to think inside the box, what's already going on, that you can just reproduce, or reshare.
Or let's say someone left a amazing review for your company, or shared a great testimonial, you can reproduce that. So don't feel like you have to spend all this time instead of simply documenting what's happening.
And I found leaders typically are supportive and their employees if they're doing free marketing. On top of that company, there's entire teams that some organizations dedicated employer branding, if you're supporting that effort, more often than not your leader is going to be on your side.
Petra:
Absolutely agree because it's also a free marketing tool for organizations because a person profile gets so much more traction than a company profile. And who doesn't want to have free shot ads for building also the company brand by building personal brands.
And you know, I think you would probably also agree building your personal brand online on LinkedIn and outside the organization often helps you to progress internally, because all of a sudden, you become visible to people or stakeholders who may not have interacted or engaged as much because of you know, the organization is so big, or the projects were quite diverse. What are your thoughts on that?
Kyle:
Yeah, oftentimes people don't recognize that their colleagues are looking them up on LinkedIn, checking them out. So it's opportunity to brand and market yourself. For internal promotions. A lot of people I work with similar to you aren't just looking for a job externally, but they're looking for their next job internally. So it's okay to share those major projects on your LinkedIn.
Don't wait until you're looking for a job or promotion to start updating. Consider carving out five or 10 minutes a week to just say, hey, what have I worked on lately? And can I update it on my LinkedIn? Can I post something real quick, online that I've already read, and maybe literally just copy and paste it or massage it just a bit to fit for LinkedIn, and just continually share that in marketing because other people will see it?
Petra:
I love those tips. So thanks so much for your generosity. Kyle, what's next for you? What's your plans for 2021? I know you've got some big projects with your PhD happening.
Kyle:
Yeah, so I'm currently in a doctorate program for adult education. I just started yesterday, actually, my fifth semester out of nine. So I've been busy with that. And then people are looking for jobs from this pandemic. I'm helping them find jobs and really recreate their careers which has been exciting.
Petra:
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for your time. Where can everyone find you connect with you? Learn more about what you're up to.
Kyle:
Yes, my website's: caffeinatedkyle.com. And then I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn Kyle Elliott with two L's than two T's.
Petra:
Highly recommend to connect and with you and follow you because you always create so much value to everyone and everyone can learn from you so much. So, again, thank you for being part of this journey for inspiring everyone and for helping people to find a career that they love.
Kyle:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was fun.
See you next time.
