From DISTINCT To ICONIC - What it takes to attain, sustain and regain the ultimate level of distinction
Petra
Standing out has always been a hot topic. But it seems it's never been more important at the same time also more challenging than in this very noisy and hyper competitive marketplace. But there is a way how to not only become the secret, but to eventually become an icon. And today we are joined by somebody who is not only a very distinctive self and an icon, but he's literally a globally recognized authority on how to create distinction for organizations and individuals to attract and retain customers and employee Scott McKain is joining us today.
Scott 0:32
Thank you so much for having me, I appreciate it. It's great to see you again, even if it's virtually it's great to see you one more time better. Thank you for having me today.
Petra 0:41
It's such a pleasure. I had the honour of seeing you live in San Diego a couple of years ago, the Social Media Marketing World. And your title was how to become iconic. And I'll be honest to say I was a little bit what worried about the title of his authority, who can be iconic, but you know what, I'll I'll go in and have a listen anyway. And you know what, I got hooked right away, for two reasons. Your story, how you actually got into researching the topic distinction, and then also your very solid framework, which I would love to discuss how we can actually get there. But for those who haven't actually come across you and have lived under a rock, can you give us a little bit of a backstory as to what got you into the topic of distinction.
Scott 1:24
But I appreciate you asking and thank you for allowing me to share it. I had been working as a professional speaker and I, you know, I was there are a lot of folks that are like what I was early in my career, you know, I would speak about anything, somebody would say, What do you talk about? I said about an hour?
What do you want me to talk about? And I work very hard on the skill of presentation, you know, presentation skills. But I really didn't have a main thing that I talked about. I had humorous speeches that were motivational speeches, but I didn't really focus on any particular topic.
And then unfortunately, sadly, my wife developed ovarian cancer, I had to put my business on hold for a couple three years and be the caregiver and take care of her. And after she passed away now I'm you know, alone, and I had financial challenges, and just a lot of things on my plate. And I thought, I've got to figure this out, I have to figure how I can rebuild my business, I really didn't have a choice. And so I started asking speakers bureaus, you know, that would represent me to clients. I said, when you refer me, What do you say, Jeff Bezos of Amazon fame said your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. But obviously, it means you can't hear it, you're not in the room. So the second best thing is to say, well, when you recommend me, what do you say? And their answer almost universally, was a good speaker, and a really nice guy.
Well, I work, I work really hard to try to be a good speaker, and I want to be a nice person, you know, I want people to think I'm a nice person, but nobody, that's not what will benefit my clients.
And now they're looking for meaning and content, and something that will help them improve their businesses. So I thought, I've got to learn how to stand out. And I started looking for material in it. There's a lot out there now.
But at that particular time, it was really hard to find things about what it takes to create meaningful differentiation in the marketplace. So I had that blinding flash, the obvious, I thought, if it's that hard for me to find this out, what's the chances that there's other business professionals like I am, that could benefit from the same material.
So I started doing some really diligent research on what did it take to stand out. And one of the things I tried to avoid was the stereotypical examples, you know, Amazon, Starbucks, apple, you know, the ones that everybody talks about, and I tried to find some examples of, of smaller businesses or less known organizations that have found amazing ways to stand out. And so that's, that's been a real privilege and pleasure, as well as to see that many of these organizations that I'd studied and written about, not only continue to stand out, but have expanded their presence, even beyond the time that I first started writing about them years ago. So it, I try to practice what I preach, you know, I try to put into play in my own business, the things that I'm talking about, and I think that's been responsible for the growth of my small business as well.
Petra 4:28
Absolutely. And as I said, you kind of ahead of the time, because yes, this topic has always been a hot topic. Everyone was interested in how to stand out. But over the last 18 months, we've all gone online, and it seems it's so crowded, it's so competitive. So just being better isn't good enough anymore. And you even technically, you know, years ago, the book from good to great and said, You know what, it's not good enough to be great anymore these days. And it's also not better to be different necessarily, but you need to be distinct. Can you give us the explanation as to what is the difference between the Print distinct to eventually become iconic?
Scott 5:02
It's a great question, I'm really glad you asked it. Because I heard a speaker the other day say, different is better than better, and I don't think it is. If I slap every customer in the face, I'm different. That doesn't mean they're gonna come back, and they're not gonna give me a good reference. Differentiation means there's something different about what we do. But to me distinctive and creating distinction is about doing something that's not only unique in the marketplace, but has real value for your customers. It makes you the go to place where your customers want to do business. There's something about you that that not only provides differentiation in the marketplace, but even more importantly, it provides a traction in the marketplace, I truly believe that the customers that we attract are more valuable to our business and the customers that we pursue. So differentiation, we find something different, we're out there, and we're marketing, marketing, marketing the difference. But it doesn't mean that it's going to continue to add value and meaning for our customers.
Petra 6:11
So true. And I think it's your topic is so current for both parties for organizations, obviously, because you have maybe heard the term the great resignation, talented professionals dropping out left, right and centre even without necessarily another job having to go to, but at the same time, they're starting their own business.
So we see an influx of small businesses and entrepreneurs. And at the same time, we also see the competition amongst fighting for the best talents. So we have to get better with being distinct. And you have explained four cornerstones of becoming distinct. Can you talk us through how to actually go from being same same to becoming distinct?
Scott 6:50
You bet. And by the way, Petra. I'm so glad you mentioned about the great resignation, because I think a lot of times when we say the word customer, people think we're only talking about those outsiders that buy our products and services.
But yet we know we have internal customers as well, and how we deliver for our internal team and the attraction that inspires repeat and referral business right inspires loyalty, that becomes just as important for our internal customers, our team members, as it does for external customers as well.
And one of the things I say to businesspeople sometimes is when they say, you know, it's hard to find people that want to work. I got challenged a little bit on that I say, is it that they don't want to work or they don't want to work for you. I mean, isn't having apalis and having trouble finding people.
And that's an overused example, I know. But what we have to do in this time of the great resignation, and in this time of an incredible change in terms of employment, is to make certain that we focus on what we can do to attract internal customers, as well as external. So the four cornerstones, the distinction begins with the first one, it's clarity, it's being very precise about what you are put your flag in the ground.
This is who we are, this is what we are. I just spent a week in a high point University in high point North Carolina, where I serve on the in-residence faculty there. And at the time that my friend, Dr. Neato Cobain took over as president highpoint University and I first started getting involved. They had about 1500 students on campus. Now they have 6000 students on campus.
How does that happen?
Well, they got very clear about what they are. They said at high point University, every student gets an extraordinary education delivered by caring people in an inspiring environment.
So what that means is, we're really clear about what we are, you know, we're gonna provide an extraordinary education, it means that we're gonna have people that care. So you can have great teachers in terms of subject matter. But if they're not willing to be caring about the students, they need to go to another university, it's standing up for your clarity, it's being willing to enforce not only what you are, but what you are not. And that's where most businesses run into trouble. And secondly,
Petra 9:07
I just wanted to stop on this clarity piece, because it's usually the part that people already struggle with. And he mentioned the term high concept. What is your key, you know, your six seconds, pitch, that everyone knows exactly what you stand for. But so many don't even know where to start? Have you got a tip? How to find this clarity? You said already - What are we not
Scott 9:31
It's really focusing on you know, the high point University example.
I mean, every student here is going to get an extraordinary education. Okay, so that means we could invest a lot of money in other aspects. But no, we're going to focus on the quality of the education, we're promising. It's going to be extraordinary. It's going to be delivered in a caring environment. How many of us can say that when we went to college that our professors really cared about us, or that the college president cares about us and high point, the president of the University teaches a course for every freshman, he tries to memorize the names of every freshman, he knows about them, so that when they're walking across campus, the president of the university says hello and knows about you. That's, that's, that's remarkable. That sure never happened in my college education, right.
And it's gonna be an inspiring environment. So they do things across the campus to inspire students. Now, I gotta admit that, you know, a lot of places of colleges and universities that don't worry about the students’ inspiration, they, they worry about their perspiration, it will make them work, but they don't try to inspire them to be extraordinary.
So it closely defined exactly who we are. Now notice, they didn't say, we're, we're going to have we're going to be known for our football team, right? They don't have football there. They didn't say we're going to be known for other aspects that universities might be known for. They focused very precisely on that high concept statement. So the high concept, right? I use a movie example.
You know, sometimes the high concept of a movie is even the title of the movie. If I say Snakes on a Plane, not only do you know what movie I'm talking about, you know what the movie is about, that it didn't have it on a boat, and there weren't alligators, you know, it was Snakes on a Plane. And as corny as that sounds, it becomes really important for what we do in business, we try to tell you everything that we do, because we think if we unload everything that we do, that we increase the opportunity that somebody is going to run into something that they like, in fact, the opposite is true.
The more that we say everything we do, then the more we seem generic, like all of our other competitors. I was meeting not long ago in Nashville, Tennessee, with a friend of mine, Butch spirit, who is the president of the Nashville visitors and convention Bureau. And he said one of the hardest things they had to do was to get clear, when they market Nashville, they market music, food and fashion. That's it. And the problem was, they have one of the biggest health care organizations in the United States. Oh, but we're a great center of health care, oh, Vanderbilt University, and Belmont University and others are based here, were great in education, oh, we have a replica of the Parthenon from Greece, it's a great, they had to cut that back and just say, music, food and fashion. That's all they advertise. That's all they market. And so the message is so clear that it cuts through the clutter, and helps them achieve their goal and their tourism is up exponentially in Nashville since he took over as head of the convention and Visitor's Bureau. So having that clarity, and that high concept, really focusing precisely on an element that will make you stand out is the first step. And in many ways, for many organizations, it becomes the hardest step of all.
Petra 12:51
It is and also for professionals, especially for those who have got 20, 30 plus years experience they usually lead with, well, I've got you know, I'm seasoned, experienced professional, 25 years experience and so on.
So industry, boring, nobody cares. What is that high concept of yourself? Why should we choose you over somebody else?
Scott 13:09
You make a great point to if I could just add this real quick Petra, which is that your resume is not your clarity. I know people they say, Well, you know, what do you do? And they want to give them Well, here's the right with college. And here's my first job. And here's my current position. And this is what I did. And that's not what people respond to. So developing that clarity statement, that high concept statement is extraordinarily important.
Petra 13:34
And I think this also helps us to actually pivot careers because on average, we are not having just one career or one job, but we are going through different changes more frequently and also more substantially. So knowing your high concept, what is your point of difference that you can bring to every industry and profession that you get into is what makes you future proof? Basically, absolutely.
Scott 13:53
Absolutely.
Petra 13:54
Now we have clarity first. What is the second Cornerstone?
Scott 13:57
Second one is creativity. And originally this kind of confused me when I started researching this tell you through First off, I thought that creativity would probably come first. Because we've heard so much about think outside the box and be innovative and all that. And clarity comes first. It it strikes me that when so many people say think outside the box, they haven't really defined the box precisely to begin with. They they need a better box, right? And then maybe think inside that box rather than in and just throw it away the box. So for example, finding just one thing to be creative that can make a significant difference for your organization.
The Enterprise rental car, just found one thing to do to compete with hertz and Avis notice the products is saying the Chevrolet or the Ford that I get from hertz is identical to the one that I would get from enterprise so they have no product variation. They just said we'll pick you up.
And that one single thing, what if we brought the car to you, instead of making you go get the car from us, made them the biggest player in the car rental market. You don't have to change everything. But if you can just find one thing unique. So here's a specific suggestion, look at what others outside your industry is doing. And think about, well, what if I brought that into our industry? I mentioned Amazon earlier, I don't mean to overuse the example.
But basically, Amazon said, ‘How do we become the enterprise rental car of books’? You know, if, if, if enterprise can bring the car to you? Why do you have to go to the bookstore to buy the book? What if we got it, and then they realized, man, if we can do this for books, we can do this for everything. And that's, that's how Amazon got created. But this works in small businesses, too.
Before the pandemic hit, I was speaking to a group of 2000 dentists met a dentist from Austin, Texas, wondered, okay, how can I become the Amazon of dental offices built a trailer with a dental office in the trailer, and you make a reservation an appointment with your dentist and the dentist pulls up in front of your house, in the dental office is on the back of the trailer, you walk out of your front door and you walk into the trailer and you you get you get your teeth cleaned and in front of your house. So there's so many ways that you can use this in so many ways. Just Just look at what's working in other industries and say, you know, what, what can I do creatively in my own industry, taking in sharing and cherry picking from the ideas of others.
Petra 16:32
It's such a good point, because they're still delivering the same service, but it has gone with time, and we are busier than ever before. And we're looking for convenience. So simply coming to you rather than you have to come to us makes already all the difference. But a difference that matters, not just any difference, like slapping you in the face. Right? clarity, creativity, what is next?
Scott 16:56
Next is communication. And what I mean by that is there are so many ways that we can communicate today. Good grief, you and I haven't seen each other for what, 18 months, almost two years now. And here we are communicating, you know, across the world. So So what happens? Well, the one thing that unites us, that transcends the technology transcends generational differences is a great story. People love hearing a great story. And so what we have to do is to create compelling narrative that engages and involves our listeners to the point that, that they take away something. And the other thing is stories are word pictures. And we tend to remember pictures better than we remember words. So what we need to do is to find the story that creates this visual, this word picture so that people remember what we're talking about.
Petra 17:47
I love this point. And storytelling has been, you know, a buzzword for the last, you know, years, but it's nothing new. It's the most distinct form, how we can actually communicate and remember things. And I can hear very especially those left Ryder professionals, you know, the the accountants and the lawyers and so forth, say, we don't know how to do storytelling. What would you answer to this statement?
Scott 18:11
Well, storytelling there, there is an approach that I talked about in the book. And it's simply a three act approach. Act. One is you introduce characters in conflict. So who's the story about, and what's the conflict that they find, if there's no conflict, there's no story, there has to be a search for resolution has to be some kind of conflict. So you write that down. Second is act two, which is always the longest of the three acts. And it's the search for resolution, it's when you're trying things and they don't work, or you you struggle with the problem, or you, you try one supplier, and it didn't work out the way that you hoped or not at the way that you imagined, or there's always a struggle involved a search for resolution. And by the way, this doesn't have to be long. I mean, this approach is, you know, what Homer did to write the Iliad in the Odyssey in ancient times, and it's what's the 32nd, detergent, commercial on television now, same format, so it doesn't have to be long and involved. And then the third is the heroic resolution, it's when the customer chooses you and finds the benefits of your product. It's when you find what you want in your life, it's, it's that it's that thing that ties a ribbon around the package, and inspires people to move forward. So just outlining those three and using that format. And you know, has been proven since the time of the ancient Greeks to be a compelling way to tell a story, even for people who are very analytically minded.
Petra 19:39
It's such a good point. And this is also how we position people who want to especially transition careers, how can you make sense out of your background, and translate your expertise in a way that makes sense to the next decision maker that you are the one and only choice that they can make?
Scott 19:55
It's very important what you said because it personalizes the message, it gets people to in my, my first business book was entitled all business is show business. And the reason I wrote that is because what we have to do in business these days is not only connect intellectually, with our clients and our customers and our employees and our prospects, we got to connect with them emotionally as well. And the only way that we can do that is through compelling narrative and a powerful story.
Petra 20:29
Absolutely. And also some of the future of work skills that are in demand our creativity, and communication because knowledge degrees and years of experience has become a commodity. We've got more access to tenants than ever before. So how do you stand out? Exactly that by telling a story, your story?
Scott 20:46
It was really interesting, because in the Los Angeles Times here not long ago, there was an article in the art section about the Los Angeles Philharmonic was looking for a new first chair cellist and they asked the conductor of Los Angeles Philharmonic, was this going to be a difficult role to fill? And his responses? Oh, yes, yeah, it's gonna be hard to find exactly the right person. And they said, so you're looking for a virtuoso. He said, Oh, no, he said, virtuosos are a dime a dozen. That really struck me that the technical proficiency of playing the instrument was no longer enough to qualify you for extraordinary an extraordinary position.
Yet we think that that's if I could just become a virtuoso, I could be the first chair in the Los Angeles Film.
No, no, it's what you do above and beyond that. So I'm not suggesting in any way that we don't focus on doing things, right. I mean, at high point University, they do all this. But they better have pretty great professors and classes that educate students and prepare them for the world and help them get jobs when they graduate. You have to do the basic, as we say, here in the States blocking and tackling to make things work out. But but it's what you do above and beyond that, they can separate you in the marketplace in those those stories, and that communication is what gets you there.
Petra 22:12
And that's a perfect seguway into the fourth cornerstone.
Scott 22:16
The fourth and final one is the customer experience, focus. And I'll repeat that that's, that's both an external customer, and an internal customer as well. But it's the experience, it's how they feel. It's the emotional connectivity, it's focusing on what kind of experiences are we creating? And is attracting, retaining, and inspiring the people that we engage with in our work?
Petra 22:43
Absolutely. And this is something that we have to rethink what is a customer because a decision maker is a customer, if it's a chair of a board, if I want to get onto a board, it's my customer, if it's a recruiter, it's my customer.
Now, for those who have necessarily thought about this concept of you having to market yourself, and you also have mentioned the word category of one, how can we create a customer experience as a one man band show who've got 20 plus years experience? And now looking for the next thing?
Scott 23:14
Right? That's a great question. I think one of the things that we have to do and Gosh, I took the line a category one from my great friend, Joe Callaway, he wrote an entire book on it. And, and I highly recommend the book, it's, it's, I think what we have to do is to take a look at what inspires us, it's hard for us to inspire others, if we aren't inspired. Now, a lot of people say follow your passion.
And, and I agree with that, to an extent. I don't think that passion ensures success. I don't think you can be successful without it.
But I don't think it's the only component that will get you there. Hope I said that clearly. I know people that are passionately incompetent. I mean, I choose my doctor because of how she is and her profession. You know, if she's passionate about it, but she doesn't know what to prescribe.
That's not a good doctor. So what we have to do is not only look at what we are passionate about, but what are our skills and what could we be good at doing? And how do we build that together to take us to where we want to where we want to go. So it really is kind of going back through those four cornerstones. It's being clear about where we want to go in the future, being creative and bringing something unique that the marketplace hasn't seen yet or at least hasn't seen in our particular position or our particular field. It's developing a narrative that will inspire an influence and it's focusing on how we make people feel. If I was going out today interviewing for a job, I'd want to be very clear about why I why I want the job.
About even more importantly, what I could bring with my unique experiences to the organization that I wanted to hire me, I tried to build a little creative twist to what if we tried this, or here's something creative I've done in the past, I would tell a story, I wouldn't just give my resume, I would tell a story about how a time I failed, taught me a lesson that could be beneficial for the company that I want to be employed by. And then finally, I'd asked them, How can I contribute to the experience of your customers, and the experience of the colleagues that I'll be working with, if you would choose me to be a part of your organization?
Petra 25:38
I love this practical application. Now, you also wrote the next book, iconic, you didn't start with being distinct. You want to take it to the next level iconic? What is being iconic when we already distinctive? Why does it matter?
Scott 25:52
Here's a quick little backstory, I was working with Fairmont hotels, and I was having breakfast with the CEO of the Fairmont Scottsdale princess jack Miller. And they had gone through the entire process of distinction. they they broke it down into different groups within the property, what you know, what does distinctive housekeeping look like? What's the distinctive front desk, and they broke it down into all the aspects of their organization? And then thought about how do we stand out in everything that we do here?
So the results were really remarkable. And so jack says, well, Scott, we're distinctive. Now. Now that we've gotten there, how do we keep it or and what's the next level? It occurred to me I'd written a book about how to create distinction, but not about how you keep it once you get it.
Right. And how do you retain it over a extended period of time? And how do you regain it, if somewhere along the way you've lost it. So that was the search for iconic. And the difference between distinctive and iconic is this if you're a distinctive, you stand out in your field, you stand out in your industry, if your iconic, businesses outside your industry look to you as a model of how they would like to run their business in their industry. And transcend your category when you are iconic. So I use this example because I know it's overused but but it relates people anywhere in the world could hear this and relate to it.
When we think of Apple, do we think of a solely a computer company? Or solely a company that makes phones? No, I mean, if if I had a rental car business, I'd like to be the apple of rental cars. If I had a restaurant here in Las Vegas, I'd like to be the apple of restaurants. One of the examples case studies in my book is a restaurant in Indianapolis, Indiana, that has higher gross revenue than Tavern on the green in New York City, one of the most famous restaurants in the world. How did they do that?
How did they get to the point that businesses in Indianapolis not restaurants, any business would like to be the St. Elmo Steakhouse of their industry.
So that's what I looked at in terms of iconic. And there were five factors of iconic performance. But I think probably the most important one is the third one. And that's promising performance. When we started thinking about it, customers judged US based only on those two factors.
What did we say we would do? What did we promise them that if they became our customer that we would do? And what is our performance? What did we deliver, based upon the promise that we made.
And so what we have to have is congruency at a high level of promise in performance. So what I found was that iconic organizations are continually advancing their promise, as they accelerate their performance. So another overused example, but it makes the point in this case is, you know, Uber started out just getting you in a car from place to place. Now there's Uber Eats, where you don't have to leave the house, and they bring the food to you. And there's even a division that's called Uber medical or Uber health. And it focuses on how do we get people to their medical appointments.
One of the big problems is getting elderly people from their home to their doctor's appointments, and many of them aren't familiar with smartphones or apps or things like that. So how do we make that happen? And also, how do you get that covered by medical insurance and all the other things involved with that. So Uber is constantly advancing the promise and attempting to accelerate the performance. And that's part of why they become iconic in in what they did. And I
Petra 29:34
think again, it has never been more relevant to be transcending into other industries. Because last year, or a couple of years ago, a travel industry and tourism were booming. And then all of a sudden, overnight was not existent anymore. And the top performers lose lost their jobs, not because of their own fault, but because of the industry not being there anymore. So how can you transcend into different industry professional much quicker without having to start from scratch?
Scott 29:59
Yes, and and to go along with that, too. How do we continue to anticipate? But friend of mine, Dan Burris has a great book called The anticipatory organization, and how to anticipate, and I mean, I don't think any of us when we were together in San Diego, I don't think any of us thought, and in about a month, everything is gonna shut down. Right? I mean, never.
How do you anticipate that?
And I think I think I kind of organizations because they, they understand the promise that they make, and the performance that they deliver has to be congruent, that they have to play their own game, by the way, that's the first factor is that kind of organizations play the game their way they don't try to imitate the competition, I think what we have to do is to understand that things are going to change and we need, we need to think about that, you know, most people work so hard at doing what they do, they don't take time to think about what they do.
That's why what you're doing with this podcast is so important. You know, it's a, it's a recess to reassess, it's time for us to think about these concepts and these things that many times we don't, because we're just so busy getting our job done and, and doing what it takes, right.
So one of the things we have to do is to anticipate what you know, we need to be asking, what if questions all the time, you know, what is the world going to look like? If it gets back to normal? What do we need to do?
If this is the new normal? If this is the way it is, in the future? What are some of the things that will change in the future? What are some of the things that probably won't change in the future?
Let me give an example. After 911 security at the airport, changed forever, right? I mean, it wasn't that they put security in place until it seemed like the threat was over. And now we go back to letting anybody walk through the gate. It changed forever.
That that was one of the things that we had to ask ourselves, what is it going to be like in the future? So in terms of the pandemic, I think there's two questions we really need to be focusing on. One is how do we stand out when things get back to quote unquote, normal? Secondly, how do we stand out? If this is the way it is, for the foreseeable future? What do we do? I mean, good grief, that Skype and zoom and, and other forms of communication have become so important and so valuable. So then the question becomes, okay, how do I make what happens in this format more interesting. I don't think people are tired of zoom meetings. I think people are tired of boring zoom meetings.
So what do we do to make our meetings distinctive? How do we go back and look at these things so that what we are creating is of greater value all across the board?
Petra 32:39
I love it and it's so perfect, round up to see you've been reinventing yourself over the last you know, three decades. What is next for you? What is 2020 going to look like for you?
Scott 32:51
I think one of the things that is happening and it's part of me actually asking that question myself, right? what's, what are things going to look at and look like and I one of the things that I've come up with is I want to do more of the consulting and coaching as opposed to the public speaking.
Don't get me wrong, I love speaking I want to continue to do that. But we're working with an organization now and some really deep consulting working with them on delivering the ultimate customer experience in creating distinction and we're adding some more to that so it's going to be more of a personal consulting coaching work with entrepreneurs and businesses and focusing on that because it's so rewarding and the other thing is we can do it in person obviously, but it's a function we can also handle virtually just like you and I are communicating right now.
Petra 33:43
So true. And thank you so much for leading the way on being this thing constantly reinventing yourself and also staying curious. You're never giving up to see what's next. And this is inspiring for everyone to follow you.
Scott 33:54
Thank you. I appreciate that so much. Thank you
Petra 33:57
Where can everyone stay in touch with you and follow your journey?
Scott 34:00
Well I'm on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, you know all the all the places Instagram and it's just Scott McCain one word SEO TT MC k i n spelled differently than most do MC k i n. And my website is just simply Scott mccain.com. And that'll give you all the information about what I do in the books and we have a group called the iconic inner circle that people can join. first month's free join and check it out.
So we do those things to help people really put these ideas into practice. So it's not just theory or philosophy, but it really is a roadmap to get you where you want to be
Petra 34:39
Excellent and I couldn't recommend create distinction and iconic to anyone any further because this is the category that I always recommend to my students I teach as my always call it paint hobby, but it's you know, you're living and breathing it So again, thank you so much. Really enjoyed the chat.
Scott 34:55
It's been my privilege and I hope our paths cross again soon in person that just Virtually better. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 35:02
Thank you so much.
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