Knowing, owning and leveraging your cumulative advantage - Interview with Mark Schaefer

Petra

0:04

Especially coming into this time of the year, towards the end of the year, people are always interested in curious about trends and predictions. And I couldn't be more excited to be time for somebody who I would consider years ahead of our times. Mark Schaefer is joining us as today's guest. And he hasn't written one best selling book or two, he's written nine books all up. And definitely way ahead of our time. So we said, thank you so much for joining us, Mark.

Mark 

0:31

I'm delighted to be here Petra.

Petra

0:33

Thank you so much. Now, when I say you're ahead of the time, I mean, I've been following your research your content, your podcast, your blog for many years. But in preparation for this interview, actually also went back to podcast interviews that you You gave back to in 2012 2015. And you gave insights and statements that couldn't be more relevant to today's economy. The question is, how do you spot trends that are worth pursuing?

Mark

1:01

And I'd be curious to find out what you found all the way back in 2012, or 2013.

Yeah, well, I definitely have a have a good track record of doing that. And I, you know, I'm not sure it, how I can really do it, it's something I discovered maybe in my in my 30s, you know, a lot of people figure out what they're good at when they're in their teens or in their 20s. 

That took me a long time, I could sort of see how trends come together. And a lot of times, people see something going on in our world. And they get immersed in what's happening right now. But I like to think through what are the implications of this? What happens if things just keep on going in that in that way?

How does it affect our system? How does it affect our careers and our in our world? 

You know, one of the most famous articles I wrote was the one about content shot back in 2014. 

And, you know, I was just, I was concerned by what I was experiencing by what my customers were experiencing. And I could see that the world was getting filled up with content. And as people got on board and decided to be creating more and more content that is going to be harder to compete, it was going to be harder to stand out, it was going to be even harder to afford to promote or sponsor content. And so that in that in that day, and when I wrote that, I mean, it was a radical idea. It was a really controversial idea. I think I had over 1000 comments on that post. It was like of about a full-time job for three weeks. But you know, but I was right? 

Because, yeah, I could see it in sort of economic terms that whenever you have too much or too some too little of something in his system that something has to change, something has to give. And it's the same thing with content and marketing. So I do spend a lot of time just kind of watching for trends. It's something I enjoy, especially Petrak. If there's something a headline that I see, that makes me scratch my head and go, Hmm, that doesn't make sense. And then I dig deeper. And usually I can learn something quite interesting.

Petra

3:37

That's fascinating. And this is what makes you one of the leading marketing futurists but I would say your insights and your research translates into so many other aspects. So you wrote, for example, the book, correct. The influence or influencer called and that was in 2014, when influence marketing wasn't necessarily a thing. Nowadays, where we see that companies and hierarchies are getting leaner and hierarchies are getting flatter. The only way to actually stand out by through your thought leadership is for influence, not necessarily by title. So would you also see that your research translates into say, the corporate world not necessarily just in a business sense?

Mark

4:19

Definitely. And I consult to a lot of big companies, they see these trends happening and they want to be on the leading edge. I think it's a lot easier for smaller companies and individuals to change compared to, you know, these big companies, but I'm willing to listen and help.

Petra

4:44

Excellent. Now, one of your insights was also that in order to become known, you need to identify an area that you have an sustainable interest in. Can you expand on what that actually means? And what's the difference to pursuing your passion, that area One is honing in on.

Mark

5:03

Well, there's, there's a lot of hype on the internet about, you know, follow your dreams and follow your passions and sometimes that it doesn't really worked out. And and I think that's not necessarily how the world works I mean, I think you should follow your dreams. But if you want to make it into a business, then there has to be enough people on the other end who care about it. Okay. So an example would be many years ago, someone signed up for a personal coaching call with me. And he was a person who collected autographs. And he thought he was the world's best autograph collector. And he wrote a book about collecting autographs. And he that was his passion. That was the he just lived and breathed that every day. But he couldn't, he was struggling to turn it into a business because there weren't enough people who cared about that. There. It's kind of a small world of people who love to collect autographs, he probably knows all of them. 

And it just wasn't big enough to turn into a business. So that was his passion, his passion, probably needed to stay as a hobby. And what I'm suggesting in the book a better way to frame it is a sustainable interest. Now, it could be your passion. If your passion is scalable, if your passion potentially has a large fan base, then yes, but there's, there's lots of exercises in the known book to try to focus on that intersection between what do you love because you've got to spend a lot of time with it, you've got it's got to be something that you love, but also something that's sustainable for years. It's, it's sustainable, because there's people on the other side, that they care about it. So it's a different way to frame the whole, you know, follow your dreams thing, you know, maybe you should, but maybe it shouldn't be a business.

Petra

7:20

That's such a good point, because it very much is the intersection between what can you bring to the world and what the world actually needs? 

And my question, also, in terms of you identifying trends that are worth pursuing, is when because you're very early with your insights and with your predictions, how do you know that it's going to be a bigger thing, and an idea worth pursuing. 

So I'll give you an example. I started talking about employer branding, seven years ago, and companies were like, off, you know what, we are good. We have talents, enough to come to us. Nowadays, everything has changed. And after about, you know, 12 months, 18 months, I said, obviously, I'm too early. I'm handing the towel in. And I'm focusing on personal writing, when is an idea too early to pursue or too early to give up?

Mark

8:08

That's a really, really good question. And so actually, I talk about that in a lot of depth in my in my new book, cumulative advantage, which is sort of like known part two, in a way me known talks about the foundational ideas of building a personal brand, and cumulative advantage talks about building momentum for that brand. And one of the concepts in there is timing. How do you how do you know? And I studied so much about this, I read so much about this? 

And the answer is, you don't know you never really know, there's always some risk, there's almost no guarantee that you can get the timing right. But what you can do is there's some exercises in the cumulative advantage book that help people sort of create a stronger opportunity for good timing, to make sure you've got everything ready, that you've done all the research and you've asked all the questions that you can. So if the timing is right, you're, you're ready to go. I mean, it's, it's, it's a big, big deal. And I think, once you try it, once you start working on it, as long as you see indicators, that it's working, keep going, as long as you're being invited to be on podcasts, or your people are saying hey, you know, I want to leave you comment because I really loved your show, or can I be on your show or as long as you're starting to see those qualitative measures of success that you're becoming No, keep going. Because it's sort of bubbles along bubbles long and then all of a sudden it starts to go up. And the biggest problem With people pursuing an idea is that they that they quit too soon. So as long as you're seeing some progress, keep on going.

Petra

10:08

That's such a good point because nothing happens overnight. And what we're currently seeing, and I'm really curious to get your take on this is what's called a great resignation, that very talented professionals resigning from their corporate job and start your own business. Your book, no one was written in 2017. But I would say it's now important more than ever before because the world the online space has become noisier and more crowded. And people think they just need to put up their website, write a couple of blogs, and they get the traction. And it's not the case. What have you seen as in the changes between 2017 and 2021? And where's the trend going next year?

Mark

10:47

Well, I think it's exactly as you say is, is that it is getting more crowded, more noisy, more difficult. I think all the things I talked about, you know, back around 2014 2015. As far as predicting where this is going to go with content and being difficult to compete, or are certainly coming true. 

I also don't think that that should really dissuade anybody. I think that everyone has their own source of originality. Everyone has their own ability to add their own story, their own narrative, to content to help them create a personal brand. And certainly, there are new successes emerging all the time. And again, I think the book known, which is about personal branding, really can get people working in in the right areas and directing them to the right areas. 

I think, today, one of the things that we have to really take seriously is this idea of nonconformity. So back when, you know, content was just beginning to fill the web, and people were starting to establish personal brands, it was a novelty. So you could stand out just by doing it because there weren't any blogs, and there weren't any podcasts, especially if you were a company. 

Today, you know, everybody's doing it. There's 1000s and 1000s and 1000s. We have so much competition for our attention, which is more than obvious. And I think what we have to do is think about how we are non-conformance instead of conformance. Today, I posted something on LinkedIn that said, I'm really frustrated. That there are people who do interviews like this, who just they have the same set of questions for every single interview. Now, here's what makes you great. You studied me, you did research on me, you've been following me. So you know how to get you know, you're asking questions I haven't been asked before.

That's gonna make great a great show for you. Right. So you are a nonconformist, we have to Zig when other people are zagging. We have to create something that really is a show something that is provocative, something that has entertainment value, because that's what it takes to compete. So I think that's really the big difference is the is the pressure on, on creating something that's compelling, or maybe even audacious to stand out today.

Petra

13:43

That's such a great point, because it actually it doesn't require that much. You just need to go the extra step or look at another problem or challenge from a different angle. And because of your different background, your experience education, your personality, you're already different.

Mark

13:57

Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day works for an agency in Atlanta, and he wanted to start a podcast or video series where he would interview different people. And I said, the last thing the world needs his two more Talking Heads. And he's a creative agency. 

So I said, you know, how do you just blow it apart? How do you do? How do you make it different? How do you show that you're truly a creative agency, be creative. Don't just interview people, like everybody else, interviews people, you've got to find some way to be compelling. 

I think that's a that's a, it's a big idea. I was. I'm actually creating an online course my first online course, about personal branding. And I'm really excited about it. And I'm doing it through Maven, and I've been studying under this woman, one of the co-founders, Wes cow, who's a brilliant woman and she said her she has Something interesting, she said, she thinks the key to success and standing out is to have a spiky point of view. I'm actually writing a blog post about that. I think that's really a wonderful way to put it. And a spiky point of view is something that's it's it's different. 

It's provocative it, it's something that can be debated. And as I look back at my own career and what I've written about, boy, have I been spiky. 

You know, if you look back at all the articles that you're talking about, it's like, it's something that I sort of know is true, but not everybody thinks it's true. And I call it out and I say, look, everyone this is, it's just not the way it is. You know, so anyway, I think I am, maybe I'm Mr. spiky on the internet. But I like that, standing up, it was through spiky point of view.

Petra

16:02

But I guess this is also why you don't just have one bestselling book, but many of them and always ahead of the time. So I'm really curious also to get your take on senior leaders and executives and the C suite to be on social media nowadays, when we want more transparency and more authenticity. Is it required for senior leaders to be on social? And if so, what is the biggest mindset that they might need to overcome when it comes to having a strong point of view, but then also potentially copying the negative and the critics?

Mark

16:36

Well, I think there's, there's a big upside. And there's a big downside. You know, I wrote in my book, marketing rebellion, how the customer is now the marketer, and that people don't, these customers who are being our advocates, they don't trust us. They don't trust businesses, they don't trust brands, they don't trust advertising. But they trust each other, we trust each other. We trust human beings, we trust our friends, we trust our neighbours, we trust these people who we call influencers, who are really just our friends that we trust, we just have never seen them in real life, we just follow follow them online. 

And we trust company leaders, and founders. So increasingly, the personal brand is the brand. That's you're the face of the brand, you're the face of the company. And I think there's a lot of great examples of that. Elon Musk is probably the greatest right?

I mean, he's not a perfect person, but he's, he's probably the greatest entrepreneur of our generation, and he's someone that people believe in. And so you know, he's that's basically what's running Tesla right now, to a large extent is just the power of his personal brand. He is the brand, Tesla does not advertise, Mercedes Benz spends $900 per car on advertising. Tesla's spend zero, a lot of that is because the power of the personal brand, I think this is especially compelling for small to medium sized business, because the founder, you know, your customers, you're out there meeting with your customers, you are the face of the brand. For a bigger company. 

It's more difficult. And there is a downside of the haters out there, and the trolls out there and the people that can cause you a lot of problems. So I think overall, the opportunity outweighs the problems. I don't to answer your question, I don't think necessarily, it's a necessity for every executive to do it. If you don't want to do it, if you're not comfortable doing it, then don't do it. And don't force anybody to do it. But if it's something that a person can embrace, embrace and really enjoy, then that is a very powerful asset for a company

Petra

19:12

That actually also has a multiple ripple effect because it doesn't necessarily need to be the leader of the organization could also be employees and the best advocates for an organization. Having said that, at the same time, so many leaders are also quite cautious about their employees being their own personal brand. What advice would you give them for those who say, you know what, I actually want to build my profile. I want to have, you know, share my bigger idea, but my company doesn't support me.

Mark

19:41

You know, remember, when I was a young guy growing up at a business, we were always afraid of losing our best salesperson. This salesperson was so good. They've got the biggest Rolodex file and they know all our customers. And our customers just love this person. 

What would happen to us, if that person left the company? Well, sometimes they do. And sometimes they don't. But that doesn't mean that you don't have a rock star on your team, you want to have a rock star on your team. And today, that Rockstar is personally probably the person with the best personal brand on you on your team, right? 

And chances are in the it is depending on your industry, there might be people in your industry who no one of your employees more than they know you. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, if and I think it's something that you should even support and amplify. 

And I've done a lot of work in that area for big companies to how do we get employees to lift their personal brands, because again, people aren't going to believe our ads, even if they see them, which they're probably not anymore. We're in the streaming age, but we do see content from others. And that's what we believe. And that's what we share. And that's what builds the narrative about your company, what's being shared by others. So I think I think generally it makes good sense. But it also takes an element of giving up control. 

You know, just like always having that fear of losing your best salesperson, there's nothing you can do to control that. You just have to say, we're gonna do our best, we're going to encourage that person, we're going to reward that person, we're going to compensate that person fairly. And, you know, hopefully they'll stay around. And I think it's the same with any employee today.

Petra

21:45

That's so true. You also mentioned that we trust peers and people a lot more than brands and companies and media. And it actually is a all-time record low in terms of trust when it comes to media. You also mentioned in one of your interviews, that trust is a big differentiator. So the question is, how do you build trust, especially in this day and age as an individual as a business as a small business? Yeah.

Mark

22:12

Well, I think the biggest, the biggest thing is, is honesty. I mean, a lot of a lot of people use this word, authenticity. And I don't necessarily think that's the best word. I had a conversation today about a guy who is struggling with, while he needs to find work. 

And he's also struggling with some with some mental health issues. And of course, it's good to find help for that it's time, all the traction around normalizing mental health issues.

And you know, keeping this in a public conversation, just like we would talk about, you know, COVID are talk about heart attacks or something like that, that's all very good and healthy. But at the same time, if he's looking for work, and he's, you know, suffering from anxiety and depression, and has a hard time getting out of bed, and that's what he's posting online.

The other person, I'm looking at hiring and hiring, doesn't have any problem getting out of bed, I'm going to hire the person that can get out of bed and come to work, right? That's just that's just human nature. I don't want to sound cold or crash, crass. I don't want to sound dispassionate, or uncaring. But I think we have to, you know, we have to strike a balance. 

If our goal is to help other people with these issues, then by all means, share, and share and share and share and share. 

There are also ways we can share in private, or in groups and not make that our personal brand. But we just have to be careful that everything we do, and everything we don't do everything we say and everything we don't say becomes part of the personal brand. And if you are having trouble work, you need to sort of burnish that, that brand in a in a positive way. 

So, you know, being authentic means like being real about everything. And I think a better word is honesty is just being honest, being true. showing up in an honest way. and I think is good and helpful and useful to disclose some things in your life, because it sends a message about what you believe in and what you care about and what you value. 

So I call that strategic authenticity, which is like the yucky is word in the word world. I know that and by but I don't have a better word for it. But it's like, okay, you know, I want to send a message that I enjoy the outdoors or I work with this charity, and that this is something important to me, right? It sends a message about this is who I am, as a person, and, and I hope I have values and beliefs that you know, attract, to attract you is as well. It's the same thing. Everything is being so polarized from a political standpoint, not just in America, but everywhere in the world. 

And this guy wrote me this message about how he took us strong political position on something and he put up all these posters in his store and everything. And the next thing, you know, he had protesters outside a store. And he said, ;this just isn't fair’, this just isn't fair. And I said, you just made a bad business decision. You know, you thought that these political views were more important than, you know, attracting customers to your to your music store. Buying a musical instrument is not a political, you know, it's not a political decision. You made a political choice. And if that's the most important thing to you, then okay, but you made a bad business business decision.

Petra

26:10

This is so spot on. And I think the one where they would sum it up is being intentional about it. The strategic authenticity, do I need to show everyone how I look when I get up in the morning and feel regretful? Probably not. No one cares.

Mark

26:23

Nobody cares. No, nobody cares about the poopy diapers or the sick dog, or you know, and I, so I think it is it, I don't necessarily think it has to be your shiny, best self, I go out of my way to talk about, you know, disappointments and bad things that happen because I want to be a real person, I don't want, I don't want to be put up on a pedestal, I want people it's important for me to not show my shiny, best self, all the time. 

And I because I just you know, I don't want to be seen being spit. I don't want to be seen as so different as everybody else.

Petra

27:06

This is you know, also I think what it comes down to you building your personal brand that resonates on a much bigger level, because you share content that is relevant and creates value because you share your learnings and the struggles and how you've overcome it rather than to say, I really feel awful. And you through to that doesn't do anything. In your book codon code, you actually mentioned that you need to have better us content. And again, it could be more relevant in today's world. Can you talk us through what actually these days moves content? Because this is exactly what creates commercial value when it is shared?

Mark

27:43

Sure, sure. Sure. Well, again, I am so impressed with the research that you did.

I'm very, I'm very humbled, humbled and grateful. So the idea that I proposed in the content code is again, it was sort of one of these spiky point of view moments that everybody was creating content, everybody was creating content. And I saw this statistic that 80% of the content on a b2b website, on average is never seen. And so then there was another article in the Wall Street Journal, I believe, that said, Well, you know, all this content marketing, it's, it's not working. And so the next thing is the people are trying to invest in SEO. 

And I thought, well, that's not going to work either. Because with SEO, you can trick people into clicking a link. But you can't trick them into reading it. You can't trick them into sharing it. And that is the power. You and I started the conversation, talking about influence. 

Here's my definition of influence. It's super, super simple: If you can move content, you are an influencer. That's all it is. 

On the web, not in your home, not in your school, not at work. But on the web. You're an influencer, if you create or share content that moves content that people want to spread, because again, nobody sees our ads. Nobody believes our ads, but they believe the content from others. 

When people share your content, its advocacy. 

People are standing up in a virtual way, saying I believe in this, I want you to believe in this. This entertained me. I hope this entertains you today. You know, I'm having a bad day. And this made me smile. I want to pass this on to you. 

That is the most powerful form of marketing. We can imagine when people are taking a personal stance to advocate something that we're doing that That is really the mindset that is required today. 

To succeed, it's not about bragging about yourself or saying how great you are. It's, it's how do we earn our way into the customer narrative, two thirds of our marketing is occurring through others. Two thirds of our marketing is by what people are talking about what they're sharing on social media, testimonies, reviews, what they're hearing from influencers. 

And an effective marketing today is about how do we create a story that earns our way into that narrative and as told by others, so it goes all the way back to that book, the content code is the idea is exactly the same. And that's why I mean that, that that book is evergreen, in some ways, in that the power of digital marketing, the only power of digital marketing is really through is that content being seen and shared by other people.

Petra

31:01

And this also creates a lot bigger movement, because you get the social proof, you get the buy in your message is shared by others. And it's not just you say, you know what, this is the best and the best, whatever it might be, it's others supporting this. And this is probably also when it comes down to getting the cumulative advantage. This is where you get the momentum through the power of others.

Mark

31:21

Yes, yes. 100%. Because that's really where the, the credibility is today. And it's not just awareness and believability. But we see this, this this massive, massive movement toward everything around influencers, I, I relaunched my podcast this week, I used to have a co-host. 

Now I'm going to have rotating co-hosts, and I in relaunching the show and my first new co-host, out of six that I'm rotating, we got into this amazing discussion, his his calling this young generation AI. 

Because it's all about influence. It's all it is. And there was a statistic that I saw Petra that, like 55% of young people, the only reason they go to the web is to see what their favourite influencer posted today. 

It is it's an influence economy. It's just it's just an influence economy. And there's going to be we talked about in this on the show how there's going to be this gigantic merging of influencers and brands, and retail, we talked about this vision where brick and mortar retail stores would have creator spaces. Right. would have live streaming centres.

It makes all the sense in the world. Why wouldn't you sponsor an influencer tour? Right? So you're a big channel? You know, I don't know, I'm not a big retail junkie. Right? So the first brand that comes to my mind is the gap, the gap still a store? Right? I think it's still a store. So the gap has hundreds and hundreds of stores. What if you had, you know, influencers visiting your stores, and so all their fans when it comes come to your store, and they're creating content with their fans, and the fans get to try different things, it you know, that's where it's, it's going to go, there's going to be this merging of experiences, and live streaming and influence.

And it's going to be everything. We started seeing this during the pandemic, when a lot of retail brands really became producers of fashion shows, online fashion shows, and online, a variety shows. And there was another trend that was emerging in China called Live commerce where they had influencers sort of like selling and having impulse buys and engaging and actually talking to the shoppers. And, you know, it's very, very exciting and that I see that catching on in America too. So, so it's just super exciting. I think marketing is being redefined in front of us. I think that we won't even recognize marketing two years from now.

Petra

34:38

And I think that's the most exciting part. And as much as it applies to businesses, I would also say very much applies to individuals who want to base their own personal brand to build their own service-based consultancy, for example, because you need to do something different interests, saying we are open web service up, come and run the door and it's not going to happen. You also mentioned in your book ‘Known’ that content creation is a cornerstone. Because otherwise, how would people know? What do you stand for? And I often get the feedback saying, oh, but I'm too busy. I don't even know what to talk about. How would you answer this question?

Mark

35:15

Well, that is the question. It's probably the question I get, and I get asked most often.

The other day, I was doing a consulting call with just one of the loveliest individuals I've ever known. 

He's just an inspiring man. He was a Somalian immigrant to the UK. And he was just recently named the Entrepreneur of the Year for the City of London. But it he's so shy, and he's so humble, and he wants to work on his personal brand.

So, he started telling me about, Well, Mark, you know, I wanted to do this, I wanted to work on this, but everything went wrong, this went wrong. And this went wrong, this went wrong. And I had to solve the problem This way, this way, this way, this way. And I said, in the last five minutes, you just had given me ideas, for five amazing pieces of content, you had this problem, here's how you solved it, you had this opportunity, here's what you made of it. 

It's basically just looking at your, it takes some courage. It does, it takes some courage. And I don't know how to I don't know how to fix that. I really don't. And I struggle, because I talked to a lot of people just say, you know, I'm just I'm fearful, I'm afraid to put myself out there, and I've got imposter syndrome. And no matter what you do, to encourage them and build them up, it doesn't really solve it, it's got to be internalized some way and I don't know how to do that for quite frankly, it's, it's maybe, you know, one of the failures of my life. 

I can give them I can, I can, I can be honest with them. And I can tell them the truth that your story does matter, it does matter. And even if these stories have been told before, they haven't been told by you, and they haven't been told, from your perspective, perspective, your heritage, your education, your family background, from the dark places from the Bright Places of your life. 

So the only way to really stand out in the world, is to be original. And the only way to be original is to add your story, you really don't have a choice. So it's literally as simple as that. And a lot of people tend to overthink it. And I did too, when I was starting out, I thought, everything I write has to be a PhD thesis to show everybody how smart I am. And that was just dumb. What people just really want to do is they want to connect, they want a new idea, they want a new experience, they want some emotional attachment to me. And that can come through the silliest little story that I tell. It doesn't have to be profound. It doesn't have to be important. But it does have to be relevant.

It has to be interesting; it has to be timely, and maybe even a little entertaining. So but I think at the bottom, it takes courage to start. And I know it does take time, but the most successful people that you look up to, they have the same amount of time as you. So it gets down to priorities, do you want to do it or not. And look, let's face it, if you want to create consistent content, that can be as little as a three minute video every week, you could take one hour from your week, and probably create enough videos to populate at least a month. 

So I mean, if you just have you know, little ideas that you can make simple three minute videos, you're on your way, do it in an hour, it doesn't have to be Hollywood doesn't have to be produced. The, you know, my presence on the web is very, very simple. It's one take one camera, the camera is usually a smartphone. Ah, you know, and but it is, it is honest. And I do have the courage to, you know, to tell my story. And that's, that's at its essence is what it takes to succeed.

Petra

39:30

Absolutely. And you know, you covered such a good point to start. And this is also how you refine your message. Because we often think in our head, it totally makes sense. In a second, we'll say it out loud. Even we confuse ourselves because it actually doesn't make sense so trialling and tasting and getting feedback from your message from your story. This is exactly what it gets you to become actually known for it because we can't just put something out there and expect it to be perfect because it's not going to be like that.

Mark

39:56

I mean, I think we need to have an image in our minds that all these people that We look up to and we have this imposter syndrome that we don't think that we belong there. Nobody started there. Nobody started there. When I started blogging, I had no idea what I was doing. I was terrible. I had no idea what I was doing. But I said, hey, look, I tried this on my blog. And it really worked. And I tried this on my blog, and hey, I made a new friend. And this happened. And so I was, I was sharing my successes, I was sharing my failures. And I think five years after I started blogging, for the first time, I wrote the best-selling book book on blogging. But I didn't write the best-selling book on blogging because I was born an expert. I wrote it because I did it and failed for five years, until I started getting it right.