How To Be More Assertive in your Communication (To Gain Influence And Get Ahead In Your Career)

Transcript of the interview with Leanne Hughes

Petra

Hey there, and welcome to the future of work campus. Today we are joined by a special guest. I've known Leanne for quite some time.

I've been impressed by her communication skills about how she deals with people, but also, how we initially met was very interesting. We both spoke at a conference where we only had five minutes to present on a topic.

She just nailed it. She won the prize for the night. And since then, we've just always stayed in touch because of her incredible friendship, and because of her incredible drive, so I'm so excited to share with you, my special friend, Leanne Hughes!

Welcome and thank you so much for joining us today.

Leanne

Oh, my gosh, thank you for that wonderful intro. That was such a challenging speech in such a great way that we connected.

Petra

Exactly. But you know what, that totally resonated with me how you approach the situation and how you went through it. And from there onwards, I just learned so much from you about communication and getting your point across very quickly. influencing people, the right way has never come across as salesy or sleazy, and it's exactly what we're going to talk about today.

·      How can you be more assertive and confident in your communication?

·      How can you bring your point across?

·      How can you influence people the right way.

And I'm really looking forward to learning more about your learnings, your journey, and some tips and tricks that you can recommend for us. Now, before we get into all the goodness, yet, who are you? What are you doing? And how did you get to where you are now?

Leanne

Wonderful.

So where I am now is a global facilitator, podcast host speaker and advisor to corporate companies, and also help individuals show up for their facilitation businesses, as well on social and getting referrals and that sort of thing. How did I begin this, I'm very interestingly, like I played netball at a really high level back at high school.

I've loved team dynamics, and actually ended up playing netball for probably a lot longer than I should have.

I should have retired a little bit earlier in my 20s. But the reason I kept playing was because I just loved being part of a great part of a team and going to all those team development workshops and actually ended up studying human resources and psychology University.

My first role was working for Accenture as an instructional designer. Now, I don't know if anyone here knows what that is, specifically. It's writing training programs. And sort of, in a way that is, if that resonates with your audience, so I'd interview subject matter experts from Telstra, the CTO, and then write these training programs.

But I hated it Petra, which was interesting, because all I was doing was I was behind a screen, and I was writing this program, so I ended up having a quarter-life crisis. And I joined a crazy company called wicked Canavan in a global marketing team. And my boss there.

He's a crazy guy in a good way crazy entrepreneur, we would do things like spray paint bans, the company gotten a lot of trouble with the government and the media. That's another story. But he introduced me to personal development CDs, people like Jim Rohn.

And he got me on that track of personal development. And sorry, opportunity came up Long, long story short, I moved to Western Australia. My boyfriend was living there at the time, he's now my husband, everyone thought I was crazy living the city to live in a remote town.

But I've got to say if listeners are listening, and what opportunities, I think one of the best things I did was moved to a remote town worked for a big government organisation.

And that's where I got the opportunity to work in marketing. I was, there was no team, it was me. So I was learning everything about marketing.

And I also had the internal opportunity to pivot to workforce development. Which brings me to what to the work that I do today. And that's the good thing about having that background in workforce development is that now as a corporate facilitator, I know what businesses want.

And I don't know what, this is a crazy thing. When I moved back to Brisbane, I just scored this dream job working for a global mining company, which ended up flying all around the world, running leadership programs in Mongolia, Canada, across Australia, and Indonesia.

But I ended up in the first year I nearly quit a few times.

So it was interesting to pivot and end up loving that job after I hated the first 12 months.

Petra

I think this story is not unusual, actually, that you let the stream chop, and then you just crumble because it's so overwhelming. You want to do your best, but at the same time, you have to learn so much.

And also, it's a heavily male dominated industry. And from what I know, you've also mainly work with male leaders. And that certainly would be quite a challenge. And this is also what we're going to talk about today.

·      How could you actually influence people?

·      How could you get your point across How can you get the buy in?

·      What kind of strategies to do identify early on?

I mean, you are people's person 100% and just chatting to you is just so refreshing and energising?

But are there specific tools or strategies or tips and tricks that you have applied that have worked for you?

Leanne

Yeah, well to go back on the influencing thing and why it's so important when I was not liking the job, so I basically I relocated out, we relocated our lives for this job, I flew back to Brisbane, the East Coast.

So I had to make it work. But I was really down.

And I think it goes back to what you're saying Petra, anyone that sort of moved roles and you go to something bigger, I was a big fish in the small sea back NWA, and I joined this organisation, and I was a small fish in an ocean.

And I felt really uncomfortable with that I was starting from scratch, no one knew who I was. I wanted to add value, but I wasn't getting the opportunity.

So what turned around for me was a few things. One, recognising that the problem was me, I was expecting the opportunities to fall into my lap. And I didn't realise that I actually had to go for them until I read the book pivot by Jenny by which we both sort of familiar with.

So in that she talks about planting and what your existing strengths are. So I think anytime we have a problem that comes into our lives, we're very tempted to hop onto seek and see what other opportunities there are. But we're not really solving the problem.

What happens, the shift was from hating my job to loving my job was being assertive in a few different areas. The first thing was finding out what I actually wanted to do with my life. And I was working in a talent management role.

That was, again, a lot of behind the scenes stuff, not the delivery part.

And I was like, well, I want to be delivering workshops. And so the first thing was, I recognised that I wrote it down as a goal.

And then I tried to figure out, how would I actually get there, that involves talking to my manager. So managing upwards is a key skill we can talk about, and just being very honest with him in our performance conversation and saying, Look, I don't love this behind the scenes stuff where I can add value is in front stage.

And then that one conversation led to him talking to an external facilitator, she invited me to co facilitate with her. And that's how I got my growth in that area. And then it just sort of spiralled out of control in a good way. From there, but it was taking that step of actually having a I thought it was going to be an uncomfortable conversation. But the second I opened up, he was extremely responsive, and then opened up the gates to let me do that.

Petra

This is an incredible story.

And for those who have multitask, go back and rewind and hear and listen to that as many times as you possibly can. Because you made such a great comment, you waited for opportunities to come to you.

Well, truth bomb, no opportunities coming to you ever, if you are not go and get it. And it starts with you knowing what you actually want, and then having the conversation, no one can read your mind.

Nobody is responsible for your happiness and success. And this is often what traditional employees’ mindset is all about.

I've been in this organisation or industry for five or 10, or whatever years, I deserve the promotion.

No! Who says that?

Just because you have your years doesn't mean you're any good in what you're doing. If you're not be if you're not out there, if you're not able to demonstrate your value, if you're not even able to articulate what you can bring to the table. No one else will recognise that either.

And, you know, this is such a significant moment in my life, because I thought, the harder I work, the more projects that take on the more responsibilities to take on they will see that I'm really good.

And then I'm getting promoted. Yes, you get promoted to certain stage. But if you really want to get out there and get into the really senior roles, or board engagements, or a speaking engagement, this is completely another level, the technical skills only gets you so far.

And, you know, this is where we talk about this soft skills to communication skill, which is such a hard skill. And you also mentioned you had this conversation with your manager. How did you start the conversation?

Leanne

Yeah, actually there's probably two instances where I had these tough conversations that really stood out for me.

So that first one, luckily, my manager is actually a very approachable person. And I basically I kind of had a script.

So I did write out some notes, because I was feeling pretty insecure about this. And he hired me for this reason.

But what I did was, I set the time I came prepared. And yeah, we just had that conversation.

Bullet points to be very clear about what I wanted, and just seeing what the opportunities were.

That was a good example.

Fast forward a few late years later, after that, I've only cried at work, maybe twice. And this was very embarrassing. I've ever told this story.

We're getting to a stage where the parent company of our organisation was actually coming down a bit too close and then modifying the decisions we were making and putting a stop to programs that I'd started for no good reason. And so I was like very, very frustrated about this and talking to my colleagues and word got out then to our executive general manager that I was thinking of leaving. So she took me for lunch, and she asked me “Hey, what's going on?” and I just burst into tears and assault so embarrassed, like I could not speak and so when it comes to assertive communication

And actually having the competence to speak out.

The reason I had acted in that way was because I hadn't addressed it in the moment. And everything. Just when she asked me that question, it was like months of tension, months of frustration just came bursting out in that moment. What I wish I'd done, what would I have done differently?

I think assertiveness is actually an act of selflove more than anything.

I think it's, it's a case of, there's no one else that's going to be in your corner, you need to be in your own corner.

And the reason why I wasn't sort of raising this at any type of level was I didn't want to people were busy, I didn't want to interfere with their time, I didn't think I was important enough to, to talk about this way I thought I'll just get put my head down and get on with it. So it's a lot of sort of mindset and confidence issues that come with speaking up particularly younger in your career.

I mean, I've definitely learned a lot from this.

I wish that in the moment that say that parent company had made that decision I'd had called a meeting or spoken and raised it in that moment, as an area of concern, rather than spending months on end just whining about it, for them to surface later on.

Timing, I think is extremely important when it comes to deciding to do this.

And I think the reason, the longer you leave a conversation like the harder it gets. So then when you actually are ready to have it, you kind of lose control of things that you need to work in your favor, voice control, I had none, I was crying, I couldn't even get it out. So I think the number one thing when it comes to if you're thinking about having a conversation, even knowing or being aware of that means that you're ready to have the conversation, and just find the moment to do that.

Petra

Oh my god, this is an incredible story. I guess I didn't know about that either. There we go. We've got a first hear. And what I also love about your practical tip, straightaway prepare, because in a second you put logic towards emotions, you can articulate it.

Otherwise, you're getting overwhelmed with every feeling there is and you're not able to say anything, you don't even know what's happening because you want to prepare for it. And then all of a sudden, something switched. And you're completely out of control.

Yes, you also mentioned, it comes with confidence that you know what you can actually bring to the table that you can articulate that.

Have you got any tip how you actually got to the point, but that you realise this is what I'm good at, this is what I actually wants to do.

Leanne

That's I mean, Petra, I still asked myself that every day.

That's the problem is if the question is what I want, what do I want to be when I grow up, and I kind of mid 30s?

I'm joking about that. That's the problem.

I think what it what comes down to what I love about pivot is let's only look for 12 months out, but let's only look for the next 12 months, right?

Because that's what we know, with the disruption of COVID and everything else. It's no point in really planning too much further ahead. Because another quote that I love is that which you can plan is too small for you to live. But 12 months, I think is enough time for you to actually go like tangibly, what would I like to be different in the situation?

And so for me, it was like, well, I just, I'm getting frustrated being behind a screen not being visible. I do like being in the spotlight and sharing my ideas.

So for me that looked like in the front of a workshop room running team programs. And so that was a very simple thing. So I would say for anyone that's struggling with that question of:

Where are my strengths?

And what I want to do?

A couple quick questions like

• What are you curious about?

• What would you choose to read about?

• What would you choose to talk about?

• If you were given the opportunity to speak about any topic in the world?

• What would that be for you?

And then take elements of that and see how could that apply to my current context between now and 12 months? And then and then start thinking about, well, what were the opportunities to apply that to, so I can reduce the timeframe definitely helps.

Petra

These are really great tips, because in this fast changing world of work we've seen over the last 12 months now with covid 19, everything has changed the world is not the same as it used to be even at the beginning of 2020.

So when you're planning for the next five or 10 years, it's going to be a irrelevant anyway and be overwhelming.

So with any overwhelm you aren’t progressing, because you just don't know even where to start.

This is a great, great tip for everyone who's listening.

And this is also why I'm such a big fan of building a portfolio career because you're not going all in and you know, sacrificing a potential good role that you could make your great role if you actually just take control of it, but you're testing the waters and you get hands on experience and insights rather than just thinking about it because you can't get any clarity, thinking about things.

And then the second way that you mentioned this, the visibility part, you weren't visible. So not everyone wants to be the leader and run workshops. Are there any other tips that can share how we can actually be visible, the opportunities are actually coming to us. Oh, how do you increase your visibility?

Leanne

I think it's about saying yes to a lot of things when especially when you aren’t ready to and example gave:

I posted something on Instagram stories about the first big gig that I did internally.

And I actually said no to that the first time because I'd been I think I was traveling in Asia, they reached out and I was like, oh, gosh, that's next week, I'm gonna be sleep deprived.

I didn't think I have any time to prepare.

Like she said, No.

And then Luckily, I had colleagues that said, What, you're crazy. But you need to do this. So say yes.

I think a couple of things about visibility is surround yourself with people that are in your corner, I think that really helps. That can, a lot of time there's a line, you can't see the label when you're inside the bottle.

Just pay attention to what people are sort of reaching out to you for. And the reason I say that is because a lot of the time, we don't think that we have any value to offer.

Another thing is, look outside the existing programs or things that are already happening at your organization. And first of all, if you can link into them, link into them.

But if not, there's nothing to stop you from creating something creating. Another idea that I came up with when I worked in WA was I was thinking, Oh, look, team morale is a bit low. Why don't we run a sports Carnival we hosted in three different towns across the region. And let's just do this.

And we did it.

And it was amazing.

And again, just lifted my brand in that organization.

So just thinking of unique ways where you can bring in your superpowers, or just existing strengths in order to do that. But I think it all just comes down to relationships.

And you don't need to be speaking on stages to do that. Some of the most effective people that have ever sort of been visible, but kind of done it in a way where you don't even know that they're working their magic things just miraculously get done, is it their ability to just influence in one on one conversations and build relationships at a one to one level.

And that's not that's not hard.

What it takes is probably a bit of strategy, a bit of care as well and going above and beyond.

The thing is, though, everyone is so busy working in corporate roles, and everyone's so busy, they don't actually spend the time to connect really well with people, particularly outside of their teams, and department.

So if you're that person, that integrator, that is an absolutely amazing way to to build your brand, but also builds your ability to influence across departments. And you'll you'll get recognized for doing that just for being a connector.

Petra

This is such a great tip and also what you said, you need to take initiative. So you just said the team morale is low. So you paid attention.

You were aware of what's going on.

But you didn't just come with the problem, saying ‘there's the problem. The team morale is low.’

Okay, great.

What are we doing with it?

You came with a solution.

And what we always say the future of work is more self driven, self-initiated, and also self paced. If you're not taking initiative, well, you can't expect anyone else to give you this permission to do it.

Because they have not even thought about it. And everyone is concerned about their own problems about their own world. So great for you to just step up and running with it.

Leanne

Yeah, I think just recognize that. And doesn't matter what age, we did a reverse mentoring program at our old company.

That was where our executive leaders were actually mentored by the graduates. So the graduates were the mentors for the executive. And it was like, Well, what can the graduates tell the executives that we're teaching them think about, you know, how to use WhatsApp to communicate what, what millennials actually want? And, and so that we're actually helping our executives become more current.

So there's always some value that you can offer, whether it's through your expertise, your knowledge, your experience, the value that you can bring connecting people. Yeah, it's just sort of being more curious about what that is view.

Petra

Excellent. And if you could give us some more tips on assertive communication, because especially in March is often the months where contracts are renegotiated or pay rises are discussed. And it's quite a hard conversation to make, or to take initiative about that. What are some of the tips on how you go about addressing those questions?

Leanne

I love this one, because I used to help people out in my older organization. So the number one problem is when it comes to negotiating something, particularly when it comes to pay or performance, is it is a hard conversation if you don't have anything to support what you're saying.

So if you're just saying, Oh, look, I was a really great worker, I showed up. I was consistent, but you're not really selling that to me.

What I would always get and hopefully, there's still time to do this, if you're listening is I would actually through the year, if anything, if I got a really nice email or recognition or something had happened and I got like an email about it or something was said I would have a folder in my inbox like a sub folder recognition. I just pop it into that. I'll take notes and pop it into that folder.

So by the time the annual performance came around, I could then gather my evidence like you would with any great legal case, and put it together, and then try to figure out what is the monetary return of doing that thing.

If that's the thing that I think with innovation as well, when people talk about innovation, but it's got to have a business outcome. So you're going to link what you're doing.

And it doesn't matter what role you're in, if you're a front facing role, if you're a support person, you're not an overhead, you've got to see yourself as a person that adds value to the bottom line to the results of the business.

So to do that, you describe it to gather the evidence, say, right, I helped this team perform better, what does that actually mean for that team, and then try and put a value against that. And then you go into your meeting, I look, these are the things that I've improved 10% improvements, and try to tack that on to like the evidence logical side, that's easier for them to talk to, rather than I did something really great. It's this third piece that you can show to support to support that. And no one does this, like no one actually prepares and does this. So it's, and don't, please don't think that you're being selfish.

When you do this, I think if you've actually created some great results, and you've done all these great things, it's in your best interest to put that forward. Because no one else would be in your corner. So yeah, gather the evidence and prepare.

Petra

This is gold, because it's marketing 101 in the entrepreneurial world, it's social proof. If no one else says that you are doing a good job that your programs work that your coaching works, well, you can say you're the best.

And the same with companies when a CEO says we are the best organization to work for, well, no brainer, you have to say that. But if somebody else says and who we can associate ourselves with whom we trust, while this is also a one on one influencer marketing, we trust this person.

So your credibility rises straightaway. And in the end, you're doing yourself a favour if you've got this everything, this evidence to support your claim, because this gives also the person who is in charge who makes the decision, that peace of mind that they make the right decision, and you have the evidence towards it. So this is gold.

Leanne

You're right, it's like absolutely right. And I bring a lot of marketing stuff into even the work that I do with workshops and facilitation. But yeah, if you think of it like case studies on website testimonials, that would be it. That's the evidence that you need.

Petra

Exactly. And I think we need to switch also our mindset, especially corporate employees, who may not ever want to run their own business, and you don't have to do it.

But you need to bring this entrepreneurial mindset into an organization. Because if you can't prove that you are a profit center, you maintain a cost center.

And with that, what are companies doing when it comes down to cutting costs, they're getting rid of people who they are, who are seen as a commodity, who are inexpensive, an overhead that doesn't get return on investment, it is exactly what every single person is in sounds harsh, but this is reality. So I love your approach and marketing yourself. Because if you don't do it for yourself, no one else will do it either.

Leanne

Absolutely. And you're totally right about like that. Anytime that a company is cutting resources, it'll be like support resources, which usually go first each of the fields that I'm in like the training function will go.

And interestingly, marketing they'll sometimes cut, which is you need them more than ever, but their support functions because companies don't they they they operational that makes us money. But if you can define how you are contributing to business performance, you absolutely and then you communicate that, of course, to the right people, your future proofing your career.

Petra

Now, when it comes to negotiation, however, we can prepare, we can get the evidence, and then you see can get the know. And this is often the reason why people are not even asking because they could potentially get rejected or pushback. Have you got any tips and tricks how we can get big instead of again, from getting knocked down?

Leanne

You have to put a video into your show notes Petra, one of my most favorite videos, a TED talk. It's called what I learned after 100 days of rejection. And rejection it is absolutely i mean they link it to the feeling and our big dilemma if when we're feeling threatened comes from evolution and brain science that whenever we feel triggered will just retreat will fight or will fly. And rejection is probably the biggest The biggest thing that stops us what's that quote? Doubt kills more dreams than failure ever did doubt. Yeah.

I probably take it before you actually go into the negotiation and ask that big question. So I'm getting used to rejection it just in your life. This guy did. Go around and just ask for things.

The other day we moved into a new house and we bought a new rug and I just casually like for everything. I'm now negotiating prices. I'm like, what do you do on that? Like if I pay you cash Now what does that mean?

And I miss negotiate everything, not because I'm tight. Although when you when you're in your house, you buy everything but because I just want to get used to questioning the status quo all the time.

And not, if you get rejected, it's like, you get a no, it's like, well, that's fine. Like I didn't lose anything like no one, I lost nothing from that. So it's kind of disassociating the ego and letting go of that voice.

So I would suggest trying to just try things and get rejected outside of work, where it doesn't really matter and doesn't have a huge impact. So that when you are going into negotiation, that is, you know, your career that your pay packet that your livelihood and future prosperity may depend on a lot of there's a lot of evidence about, you know, if you negotiate for even a five K, increase what that means for your career.

Yeah, just get used to getting no outside of work.

Petra

This is honestly gold, because what it comes back, again, is preparation just in a different aspect. And the more you can prepare, see what works, what doesn't. This is also why role plays are so effective, because you just learn, okay, how would I respond? If this person says this? What would I say if they would come back with it, that you already know it? And also, I'm not sure about you, but this facilitation, I always go through the day, twice, once in my mind, and then once in real time that I know already. Okay, what could be a push back? What could be a question that I could get us? Because then if you're not getting caught off guard, and you can keep your cool. And again, put the rationale on the emotions.

Leanne

I just want to add to that that's such an awesome thing that you shared Petra, the objections and this is comes back to marketing and sales talk as well.

But if you're like looking at negotiating for a pay increase, what objections might you get a we don't have the budget for that be yet, just try and list them out in terms of what you think the objections are.

And then when you present your case, or why you feel a certain way. Talk about the objections upfront. So it just shows that you're acknowledging them.

But you've also got a response to that straightaway. rather than letting them come to you with the objections, it just shows again, it's another form of preparation. But that's what I do in my workshops.

So like, particularly when I was presenting to male mining supervisors overseas on leadership, the first thing I said was, you see this person in corporate a female that doesn't work on site talking to you about leadership, and I kind of make a joke about it, but call it up early, close up, one, you know, thinking like, what's this girl and corporate teaching me that leadership, address it in the introduction, to call it out, call it out early, get it out. And, yeah, it puts, it's really kind of calms their fears as well.

Petra

This is also a trust building exercise. Because when you show and actually talk about their potential objections and their concerns, you're already liked. And you already trust them, because you kind of know what they are up to.

And in marketing world, it’s called, objection-based marketing.

This is how I got into recruitment after every other agency rejected me because I said, after I heard it, you know, 16 times prior, that I didn't have the same experience, and also didn't think that they could teach me because it was already so progressed in my marketing career. I said, I know what you think that I don't have to say this experience, however, and this is where it comes back to connecting the dots.

Having worked as a PT, and a group fitness instructor since the age of 16. And having to get my own clients, I know what it takes to build relationships and to build rapport and to create my own business.

So this is what I would bring to this table.

It's career related. But at the same time, it's still the same, you want to get the best out of people. And I had the job. But it took me like 16 freakin rejections to get the connection pieces there. And I think this is also what people are struggling, that they can't make sense that they can't think ahead, that they can't build the trust early enough. Because in the end, what is the buy in, it's all about the trust that you're doing the right thing. And that means that you're meeting with them people where they are at. So maybe if we can talk before we wrap up about this car, because you said communication is all about people and relationship building. What are some of your tips to actually influence people the right way and build those relationships?

Leanne

Yeah, as you said, it's all about trust. My favourite metaphor is what Stephen Covey talks about and the emotional bank account, I just have it always in my mind.

So the metaphor is that, obviously, with a bank account, you can't withdraw money, when there's nothing in there, you've got to put deposits in, right, you got to deposit deposit deposit, and then you can withdraw.

Now it feels very transactional when I then bring that and talk about relationships, but I think the metaphor absolutely resonates. So a lot of the time in companies I remember I'd be sitting there and some random person from finance to send me an email and go, I need this report by the end of today.

So how do you think I respond to that? I was like, Hey, who is this person like, and they're just go nuts. At this. because I never even met before. But what? That doesn't I don't sound like a really cruel, but I think we kind of all do that we're like who's this person and an emailing a deadline like just call me anyway enough of that rant.

But what would happen there was that person hadn't invested in the relationship? No, I didn't mean that we had to have coffees before you even asked me to do that but a call saying, Hey, this is this is my name and like, this is where we're going and I need your help, a call would have been much better.

But if to build influence, it's that know, like and trust factor.

So how often do you do that with people that are really busy? That might be other departments, other countries to you, as well.

And there's a few sort of fun tactics that I've been talking to real tactical level, they're all based on, how do you do that? First thing is I don't make my initial thing about reaching out because I want something from them.

But it might be to add value to them.

So if I know that there won't be speaking at a conference, I know someone that's also attending, I might just connect a couple of people. That's one thing I could do. If I see an interesting article the other day, I have my own business, but I know someone at my organisation.

She's not in a diversity role, but she loves diversity.

I thought I'm just gonna send her this article and go Hey, thought of you because I know how passionate you are about this topic.

When I was subcontracting last year for a big mining company, a lot of it in the first few weeks was virtual. And what I noticed was that these managers hated being on these WebEx calls. I like literally looking everywhere, but the screen are busy. So what I did was before, anytime I had to catch up, I made it extremely clear what I was after. And you think that's something obvious. But it's not often done in companies.

And often I remember getting emails where it's like, all this text, it's like, well, what do you actually want from me?

And so if you can be really clear with what you're after, also provide value when you there and valued time.

But I think that I just send voice notes to people as well to check in anything that isn't email is probably a good thing. If you take it off email. Fun. I don't know about videos, how that would work. But just a quick voice note, hey, because when thinking about what are your ideas for that?

Yeah, just just keep that emotional bank account in mind. Particularly, you've got a project coming up, and you know who your stakeholders are? What are some ways that you can add value to them? I don't know, grab a coffee, just something to invest in that relationship? Because you know that you're going to have to withdraw from it eventually. You need their help.

Petra

Yes, yes. And yes. Because what do you say just saying is giving them little gifts, doing something unexpected that lights up that day, because this is the emotional connection, you will be remembered forever in two days. But so many make the mistake, they go AWOL, and you don't hear from them. You don't see from them. And when they need something, boom, by the way, I'm looking for a job Hey, can you make an introduction? Hey, I'm selling this, like, Who are you? And even if I know, you know,

My favourite quote from Jordan Harbinger, it's like dig the Well, before you get thirsty. Yes. If you can systemize it, he talks about you know, everyday, just a few people on your contact list, just reaching out sending a text doing something sending a giffy just to keep on the radar screens. Because you don't like I didn't like doing that either. And I kind of refused, you have to call someone after 10 years of not talking to them, I'd feel very awkward.

Of course you do. Because you don't have anything in common anymore. However, a few drop a note every now and then send a little voice message saying you know, it's been a while but I've been thinking about you because of so and so have you well, without anything in mind that you take it to the next level say, oh, by the way, I see that you are connecting with this person. Can you introduce me? Yeah.

Petra

People don't want to be taken advantage of. But when it's there to take and give relationship and it's always balancing it out. You want to help people naturally.

And especially now where we live in a more globally connected world. I think building those relationships way before you need it are more is more important than ever before.

And I also know that one of your strengths is facilitation simply because it's connection. It's communicating with people. It's bringing people on the same page who may not be on the same page, we've got different agendas. And this is a skill that everyone needs to master whether you need to facilitate a meeting whether you need to run a virtual workshop, where you need to simply, you know, do a stand up every day. It's a facilitation of conversation. Have you got any tips on how we can improve on those facilitation skills?

Leanne

Oh, wow. That's what I mean. I've got 160 podcasts about this. So like I could go on and on how much time do we have? I think the first thing is actually seeing yourself as the role of facilitator. I don't think people they think I'm the leader of this group and we're having a meeting. That's what people currently Connect. They don't actually say I need to use some type of conversation. Skill a process to guide this along. What we're so used to is very linear agenda. So someone was talking about this, and we'll move to this item. But what we don't recognize that there are like incredible processes, and question prompts, and things that we can do in our instruction and the way that we call on people to enable that to be much more effective.

I guess the problem of what I see in organizations is like people will walk up to a meeting. And this is what I did when I first I to chair a rebranding committee back in Western Australia. And I had no I never, I didn't even know what facilitation was, at the time. I just like, right, I'm going to hate this on time. My job like Oh, I thought that was like just keeping it on time. I didn't even think about what the output was. So I think that would be my first tip is, before you even call a meeting, just what is the purpose of it? And do you have to be there live, or is there any other way that you can get this information that doesn't require another zoom call, that would be the first thing.

Second thing, think of what the output is and what you want from it, and then redesign it, redesign your agenda to enable you to get there. The other thing about facilitation, though, in these type of conversations is also you have to be quite present and recognize if things aren't working. And you might need to call it up there. And think of another way to, to sort of not forge through, but there might be another underlying issue that is prohibiting you from actually getting to where you want to go. So kind of having that process yet being willing to be flexible with that, and to go to a conversation that you weren't ready for. And I think there's a bit of vulnerability in there. Because as a leader, you kind of want to be in control. And if you're in control, it shows that you're professional, but being willing to then be flexible with the content and with the way the conversation is going based on what you're hearing.

That is probably the number one skill for facilitators and what sort of shifted when I graduated from being a first time facilitator, which was all that control me telling you what was going on, versus where I'm actually more confident enough to actually let the group dictate where the process goes, knowing that I've got the output as my North Star that will guide it through. So yeah, there's just so many amazing tools and conversation prompts that I don't think a lot of people are aware of.

Petra

This was the perfect summary and a river because again, it comes back to being prepared following through. And also building those relationships before you need them. And knowing what you can bring to them. And it starts with self awareness. And also a great segue into your podcast because first time facilitator, hands down, I have not missed one episode. It's an incredible resource on all things facilitation connections, building relationships, marketing, branding, everything that you need to know in order for you to sell your point of difference in the end and facilitator sells themself as their business as their career. And every leader sells ambition. So how can you do it even better? Now? What is next for you? And where can everyone to connect with you and learn more about you?

Leanne

Wow. Yeah. So what's next me is probably doing more of what I'm loving already. So I'm just partnering with organizations and advising them on company culture, also running workshops, helping with communication, everything that we've spoken about today, continuing the podcast, like you said, It's first time facilitator, but includes so much under on that on communication and everything else. So where can you find me? Well, wife, Petro LinkedIn is my playground. So I'd love you to connect with me to search for Leanne who is on there or check out Petras posts. Usually I'd like life or commented on at least one of the week. My website is at Leann hughes.com and the podcast is at first time facilitator.com

Petra

incredible. We'll put all the links to the show notes. And I could not recommend any hire for anything communication facilitation related and of course, just being an amazing human being and friend.

Leanne

Yeah, you too. Oh, Petra, you're awesome. Oh, I love you.

Petra

So I'm really excited that you are also our industry Insider for the future of work campus in March. And honestly, our members are in for a treat to just have you there for your guidance and your tips. So thank you so much for being the person you are. Well.

Leanne

Thank you, Petra, thanks so much for the honour of being on your show.